my brakes suck

[Rootie524]

to start off my brakes have always sucked. as time goes on they seem to get spongier and spongier. the pedal keeps getting softer and easier to push in and the braking quality keeps decreasing. all i did was replace the pads and now its worse than before. i did everything right but i have yet to bleed them or anything. is it possible everytime when i change pads and need to put the caliper piston back in its screwing things up? do i need to bleed it or is my master cylinder going to shit?

let me know what you think. the cylinder res is up where it should be. i dont see leaking at any of the hoses on any four wheels or even at the res for that matter.

[86FieroSEv6]

You could start with a thorough bleed out of the old fluid. Also check for slack in the wheel bearings, when they wear it takes more piston travel to square up the rotor before any real clamping can take place. Also make sure the guide pins are not binding. Finally, tell us which anti-lock system your car has, I have seen issues with the dump valve causing weak pedal symptoms. Do you have rear disc or drum? If drum brake, make sure they are adjusted up, sadly too many people do not use their parking brake which would help maintain adjustment. If disc, then check the guide pins back there too.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

I see one of two issues here:

Either the master cylinder is going bad, or you're having a lot of air build up in the lines.

The N-body Malibus all have drums in the rear, I'd attack those, checking the rear wheel cylinders for leakage, and seeing how far out of adjustment they might have gotten (I know the N-body has self adjusting shoes, but it doesn't hurt)

New pads? If it was just a pad slap, there's one issue. Two, what sort of brake pads you using? I know most part store's cheapie pads are a lame organic compound, that feels very mushy. Now, ceramics are the way to go, IMO, but only with new rotors, or at least cut the old rotors for a clean, smooth surface for the pads to bite to.

Also, if there are no leaks in the brake system, it is not necessary to bleed the brakes after a brake pad and rotor change.

Keep us updated.

*EDIT*

Other things I remembered: (lul)
How was the condition of the guide pins on the front calipers? Use brake grease or anti-seize to lube them.

Also, the shims on the caliper bracket, where the sides of the pads slide back and forth as the caliper piston compresses the pads. Use a wirewheel to clean them up, or just buy new ones. A very light coat of anti-seize helps out as well.

[Rootie524]

pads are duralast semi metallic. i always use semi metallics but this time its worse than before so i doubt its the material. it is indeed drums in the rear and there are leaks no where. guide pins were cleaned up, reinstalled correctly, and i did use the lubricant. rotors are drilled and slotted and please dont tell me thats why they suck. because i've had them on for a long time and they have always worked well. they are not warped and have a good surface. also as for rear brakes, i always use my ebrake. and its takes a good amount to put the ebrake on so everything should be good with that.

im still thinking mastercyl. or maybe a brake booster?

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Might be the rotors...

What's the mileage on them? I had a similar issue, I got 50,000 miles out of my last set of Baer Decelas. When the pads wore out, I kept the rotors, but they felt terrible, I got nasty brake fade when they got too hot, and not even from driving hard. Because D/S rotors cannot be cut, there isn't a smooth surface for the pads to bite to, so you can get excessive heat build up. I swapped out the rotors with 50K for new ones, and the issue went away.

Just from my issue, it may be your rotors.

[Rootie524]

the braking sucks hot or cold. and not more than 6k id say. if its not rotors, what else would you suggest.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Honestly, it could be the master cylinder then. I'd bleed the brakes to check for any air in the lines.

[danbettis]

If you have rear drums, play with their adjustment and for check leaks as mentioned above. I have seen many people, techs included not clean and adjust the rear and have a crappy pedal after a very good front brake job. Clean them up with soap and water, or brake clean if you want. Then adjust them out. That is it all looks good back there. After that Fluid fluid fluid. Fluid is the heart of your brakes and it is what is providing the pressure. It it is bad then nothing else matters (besides the master cyl), because you will still not get pressure. A good flush does wonders for a brake job.

If your master cly is bad you usually get a sinking pedal. You will push it and it will slowly go down. I manged a shop for a while and we never had to change one of those. So i say that is not likely, but not impossible. A brake booster will cause the pedal to get hard.