just joined up, looking at some options

[simplemind7]

hey everybody, i'm new here (and sorry for the long post)... i've been looking into engine options for my next project car, its going to be an opel manta, '71-'75 (since i already have one opel). stock, they come with a cast iron 1.9L 4 banger, heavier than some aluminum V8's, it puts out a whopping 85hp or so, but the car only weighs a bit over 2000lbs.

i work at a performance/car audio shop and one of the guys i work with has a 91 civic hatch that can do the 1/4 mile in 12.6 @ 107 mph, and hes pretty proud of it. so i'm wanting to show him up a bit, just because thats the kind of guy i am... that and i've always wanted to build a drag car i think i have a fair chance, i have the advantage of rear wheel drive for traction and we're more or less the same weight

i was origionally thinking of dropping in a V8, but i want to keep at much weight off the front end as possible, so i'm trying to decide between a turbo'd, built up origional engine, or a 60 degree V6 (probably 3.4L), which is the only other reasonable priced engine that will fit in there and be worth my time that i have found... or maybe a turbo V6?

anyway, i've got a few questions for you:

1) i looked at the transmissions in the left menu there, and i'm wondering if there is any 6 speed trans that will either bolt up to the engine, or be modified to fit without too much work?

2) does anyone know the weight of the engine with all the basic parts needed to make it work?... like wiring harness, ecu, intake components so i can compare it to the origional tank of an engine

3) how well does the engine respond to turbo charging? i've got a bit of a background in fabrication, and have always wanted to have a turbo project... or maybe something crazy like a twin turbo, since there are a few pairs sitting around at my work that i could pick up for cheap... or would only 3 cylinders per turbo not be enough?

4) who thinks i can do it on a decent budget? i'm thinking i'll buy the engine, trans and everything from a wrecker as is and use it so i don't need to rebuild anything, i'll be doing all the fitting and fabricating myself... my goal is to build the whole car for less than $5000 canadian, including purchase of the car (about $400-$500, i already have a few beaters lined up for me to take my pick of this spring)

heres my run down of the prices:

purchase of the car, including transport to my house, $600

engine, ecu & wiring, probably from a mid 90's camaro/firebird, ~$1000

tranny, probably from an S10 since its shorter than the camaro and the car is very small ~$600

rear end, undecided on which, but preferrably independent with a LSD (any recommendations?), i would guess $500 at most though

turbo parts and piping, if i decide to go with that, less than $800

exhaust, ~$300

half assed body work (weld new sheet metal to cover the bit of rust the cars have, a bit of bondo, and some flat black paint), ~$300

and the other $900 go to random expenses, like the driveshaft modification and balancing

anyway, i'll stop rambling for a bit... let me know if you all think its possible to do on that budget, or if you have any reccommendations for anything

[Guest]

RE: just joined up, looking at some options

Ok, it sounds like you are wanting a genI (iron head 3.4), good choice for a base. There is a turbo 3.4 owned by Tiago that lays down over 300HP and 400 Ft/Lbs. He's running some extreme boost, and ported top end, and something tells me he replaced teh pistons, but I think that was moreso to do with a nitrous exepriance before the turbocharging, it's been a while so I don't remember for sure.

The only difference between the F-body tranny and the S-series tranny is the shifter location, which may be desirable for the opel, but IIRC they had long tranny tunnels (pics would do wonders here).
If you want an S-10 tranny, I will be pulling mine out this winter and also have a Centerforce clutch to go with it, if you were looking for a deal, the OEM clucth will not hold up to a turbo 3.4, trust I know. imp:

Scrap the F-body PCM, it takes a lot to make it work and if you're doing this on a budget, you'd be better of swapping to a 727 (W-body) ECM and running a TGP PROM, for a turbo DIS equipped V6.

Don't use IRS for drag racing, why limit your traction from the get go? If you really feel the original third member won't hold up (Probably not, they are 6 or 6.5" ring gear, right), look at using an S-10 7.5" I have put over 220 HP and 370 ft'lbs through mine with no problems so far, I will be upgrading to an LSD and 3.42 gear from the peg leg 3.73 gear. Look for 2WD, they are narrower than the 4x4 and may fit just fine between your wheel wells, even if yu have to use 4x4 offset rims. Also MOST ZQ8 suspension equipped S-10s (later years, 2nd gen Say between '96 and '99), were equipped with LSD, so that would save some expense there, plusmost were either 3.42 or 3.73 gears. You may still want to go with ah higher gear in such a light vehicle.

I don't recall what the ready to run weight of the genI engines were but a quick guestimate would put it somewhere betwee 425 and 475 lbs, fully dressed.

On a budget is not a problem, I built my truck for around $5000CDN, that includes teh body work, I have about $1500 invested right there, plus the $700 for the truck and another $2200 for the engine build AND turbocharging, I also went hybrid with mine, using an aluminium top end from a '95 Builck Skylark (being upgraded to a '99 3400 top end from a Montana minivan).

You can TT the engine as well, there are a few people that have, though none of them here......yet....
Proper sized T3s could respond very well in a TT application, I will either be running twin T25s or T3s when I rebuild my turbo system.

Don't over look the 2.8 or 3.1, F-body, both work well, but will require a different ECM or different controls for turbocharging (FMU, MSD 6BTM etc).

For refernce, I went 13.8@99 with a 2.07 60' and no where near enough fuel in the top end, in a 3200 lb (approximate) truck, so in your caryou should be able to go low 12/high 11 with the same power, which doesn't take much, a better tune on my combo would have already put me low 13/high 12, so imagine a lighter car with traction, oh baby!

[WhiteRaider]

I'm pretty sure that the t-5 bellhousing will work on a t-56. Not positive, but pretty sure. It's worth checking into. However, the t-56's are a whole lot more expensive used than the T-5s are.

This thread might be helpful to you as well:

http://www.60degreev6.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1938&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=008e0e81ee2c5055146adc893e597ab8

[Guest]

No, the T-56 is a completly different beast, it has an integrated bell housing, which makes it difficult to use, but an adaptor plate could be made.

I forgot to adress the six-speed issue....

If you are building this for drag, forget about the 6th gear, it will only be HP robbing rotation mass and extra weight to the car over all. You probably won't even hit 5th in the 1320, I know I barely got throuh half of 4th in my truck. The 5th gear is nice though if you have to drive your car to the track.

[simplemind7]

oh, i forgot to mention, it won't be only a track car, i always want it to be streetable, fun to drive (IRS) and fast on the highway (6 speed)

my plan is to switch between each car each year, this summer i will be driving the horribly underpowered GT and working on the manta, next summer it will be the other way around... and then i still need a winter beater... stupid ontario and our excessive road salt

[Guest]

oh, i forgot to mention, it won't be only a track car, i always want it to be streetable, fun to drive (IRS) and fast on the highway (6 speed)

my plan is to switch between each car each year, this summer i will be driving the horribly underpowered GT and working on the manta, next summer it will be the other way around... and then i still need a winter beater... stupid ontario and our excessive road salt

LOL, I know what you mean, by the salt.

Trust me, go live axle, cheaper, easier to find and in a lot of cases actually works better than IRS, especially during acceleration, straight line or in a corner.

[simplemind7]

well the car has a live axle in it right now... but its only good for about 150hp before it gets eaten... and i'm planning on alot bigger than that

[Guest]

well the car has a live axle in it right now... but its only good for about 150hp before it gets eaten... and i'm planning on alot bigger than that

That's why I suggested the 7.5" 10 bolt from the s-series.

An IRS will not be cheap, especially when you need to narrow it. About the only somewhat easily attainable IRS that I can think of is from a Super Coupe (3.8L supercharged thunder bird), which uses aliminium control arms, that are not easily narrowed, nor are the axles, the entire unit is HUGE. Take a ford 9" and multiply that by a factor of 5 and you will get the bulk of this unit, BTW they are not cheap either.

On a budget, stick with simplicity.

[Guest]

Just to tease you a bit with some TT 660 pics:



And an aluminium headed version:


Enjoy.

[simplemind7]

mmm... that was mean, lol

one pretty nice option for a rear end (although i don't know about its power handling abilities) is a late 80's BMW 325, independent, LSD, rear disks and about the right width for me, not to mention it can be had for a fair price too since they're common in wrecking yards... the only catch is i can't seem to find anyhting about power handling on them

[dohcfiend]

tell me a little about the opel? is it a f/r, f/f or m/r platform?

[Guest]

F/R

[SappySE107]

How much space are you working with? Got pictures of the car and engine bay?

[simplemind7]

there is definately enough space for the engine & tranny with little to no modification other than cross members, and theres probably enough to easily fit both turbos if i decide to do that...

i'll see if i can get some pictures, the photo gallery was down on the opel site i'm on last night so i couldn't post any up

[WhiteRaider]

i'll see if i can get some pictures, the photo gallery was down on the opel site i'm on last night so i couldn't post any up

You can always upload them to http://www.imagerage.com . It's free - you just post the link.