Modded 3400 (LA1) vs. Stock L67

[donk_316]

You can get those kind of numbers out of a 3400 without a turbo guys! cmon now. buy the motor. crank the compression. regrind the cam. use a obd2 computer chipped.

motor -500
pistons -500 (good forged ones)
regrind -150
rebuild "kit" 250ish (guess) bearings, gaskets, rings.
chip -50

approx. 275hp

you just stomped a L67 and you wiegh alot less...

[Jeff420]

275 hp from pistons, a regrind and a chip? what kinda compression are we talking here?

[donk_316]

i was thinking 12 to 1.

[jimraelee]

cost of l67 swap

Ok, since Im doing a swap now I can speak from my experience... now I was going to remove my 3100 from the GA and put in a built 3400... I found very little performace parts for the 3400 aluminum head engines... mostly everything is for the iron heads... so I opted for the l67 swap... the engine will set you back $750 - $1k and ad $500 for the tranny... If your going to pump up the l67 add some more $$$ I spend about $1k on mine, between working the heads, new springs / cam package. I alsoopted to rebuild the trans so there was another $600. You will be spending lots of extra money on things your going to try...like getting the heater hoses to match up.... making new power steering hoses and tranny lines. Oh and also making some drive shafts

Dont think that your going to just drop it in... NO luminas cavaliers came with a L67... the only car/van that came with a 3800 was the lunina van... now Im not aware of what cars from other countrys (canada/mexico/australia) came with but I speak just of the US. The layout of the two enines is totally different 3400 eng have pcm behind the glove box.... 3800's have it in the eng bay under the air filter box. If your going to put a L67 into a lumina, you will have less effort involved than i did mainlybecause the rad support is already to accept the upper eng mounts

ODBII came out in 96 on all cars / trucks no matter the manufacture

as for the 3400 with boost... there is a company out ther just releaseing a turbo backage for the 3400 for about $4500 Im not saying there isnt a chaeper route, thats just one that comes to mind as a bolt on package.

to see what im talking about look here...

http://home.comcast.net/~jimbutterfield/Grandamprojectcar.htm

[geoffinbc]

No performance parts for the 3400 HMMM. Well as we all have said before. There is barley any "kits" out there true. But if you know your shit like most of us (on this site) do you will find and endless array of parts.

We even steal your performance valves because they bump our compression up by a small margin.

I like the L67 just fine. It hauls ass and is one of the few engines offered by the OE's that comes with a blower on it. That is what surley draws the hoards to it. But by design the 660 arcitecture is just better from the get go.

And here we are again, continuing the 3800 VS 660 debate LOL

[dbtk2]

Personally, if you're trying to do this on a budget, like you are, why swap engines? Keep your 3100, put a turbo and some mild mods on it, and you can make 300hp or so fairly easily. Yeah, you would make more power with the 3400, but it wouldn't be enough for me to consider the swap, thats for sure.

Shawn

[SappySE107]

you arent gonna get 275 NA from a 3400 without a shitload of custom work. 12:1 isn't going to do it, thats for sure. No porting or custom intake/headers? No way.

[jimraelee]

Yeah, you would make more power with the 3400, but it wouldn't be enough for me to consider the swap, thats for sure.

Shawn

a 3400 swap where there was a 3100 is a good swap for stock parts.. the 3400 flows better and stock vs stock the 3400 is better.... and not much cost difference.... DO IT.... as for l67 swap.... not cheap...

[dbtk2]

Yeah, but he already has a 3100 in there. So it doesn't cost him anything to keep the 3100. So actually, there is a bit of cost difference and time difference. He would have to buy a 3400, and put it in. Thats a bit of work too. Its just more money and time he can spend on modding the 3100 IMO.

Shawn

[Froggx]

I looked at a LA1 vs. L67 in my fiero. Both require me to redo all my wiring, so that wasn't a factor. Also, I would be using my getrag 282 for either engine anyway, since it's much better than any of those automatics. Originally I was leaning towards the L67 for the power benefits. However, I began looking at the difficulty of actual install in addition to cost. With the LA1 I am able to reuse my stock engine mounts and I don't have to do any mods to my chassis or cradle to get it in. I can reuse my lightened flywheel without spending $300 mutilating it to fit onto the L67. I can tune the car myself by using an eeprom emulator and OBD-1 ecm. Also, the obd-1 ecm I chose has code already prepared for a 5-spd. I have no idea how I would have gotten the L67 to work with my 5-spd. Also, power differences are really not that great. If in a few years I get tired of what my 3400 can do with 10 psi going into it, I can just blow another $1000, go to forged pistons and a standalone, and crank up the boost to whatever the compression ratio I choose allows. Also, weight is a huge factor for me. Fieros have a slight rearward weight balance. Even going from the iron head 2.8 to the 3400 shaves off some weight in the rear and leans me to a near perfect weight balance. Throwing the bulky 3800 in the back would be great if I was building a drag car, but I'm not.

If your car was offered with a 3800, it might make sense as the swap would get easier, but if you're doing a budget swap, which you seem to be doing, I would say hang on to the 3100 and mod it. If you MUST do an engine swap (which I thoroughly understand that feeling) I would say go for the 3400.

[jimraelee]

With the LA1 I am able to reuse my stock engine mounts and I don't have to do any mods to my chassis or cradle to get it in.

West coast fieros makes eng mounts so thers no hacking of your stock frame...

Also, the obd-1 ecm I chose has code already prepared for a 5-spd. I have no idea how I would have gotten the L67 to work with my 5-spd.

you can buy emulators for the trans plug, or just have it removed form the pcm... DHP handles that.

Throwing the bulky 3800 in the back would be great if I was building a drag car, but I'm not.

whats bulky about a 3800.. haveing extra 50lbs for the SC???

If your car was offered with a 3800, it might make sense as the swap would get easier,

It would go much much eaiser, Ive got the hours into my project to prove it

[dbtk2]

Hmmm...whats bulky about the L67??? Are you kidding??? The 3400 is aluminum block and heads and is a 60* V6. The 3800 is a 90*, so right there its a bigger engine, plus its iron block and iron heads. Not only that, but yes the supercharger adds weight and size as well. And the internals of the 3800 weigh more as well. I don't know exact weights for anything, but I know the 3400 is SIGNIFICANTLY ligher than the SC 3.8. Personally, I would rather have the L67 in a Fiero, however, the 3400 is definately lighter, and for an autocrossing car or something, the 3400 would be a much better choice.

Shawn

[SappySE107]

3400 is iron block, not aluminum. The heads are aluminum though.

[dbtk2]

I though the Gen III went to an aluminum block!?!? I thought that was one of the advantages to them over the Gen II block. Oh well, learn something new everyday I guess.

Shawn

[jimraelee]

The 3400 is aluminum block and heads and is a 60* V6.

ahh quit drinking your bathwater... there is no aluminum block for th e 3400??/ there was a prototype for the beretta "indy"version years ago at its debu, but never made production...

The 3800 is a 90*, so right there its a bigger engine, plus its iron block and iron heads.

the 90' block is only 1 1/2 wider yes thats major ... NOT

Not only that, but yes the supercharger adds weight and size as well.

yep 50lbs for the SC and yes Ill give you it stands abot as tall as the standard plastic intake that the sister 3800 (l36) uses

And the internals of the 3800 weigh more as well. I don't know exact weights for anything, but I know the 3400 is SIGNIFICANTLY ligher than the SC 3.8.

oh yes the 3800 has a balance shaft internally it weitghs about 2lbs... but eng still has cam pistons and rods, just like the 3400