DOWNGRADE 3.4 to 3.1 short questions

[55trucker]

Arkin:

I got a reply back from that individual in the states selling the ebay DOHC engine link I sent you, he's decided to part the engine out,

he will sell you the front cover assembly for $165US total including shipping to you there in the Ukraine.

if you're still interested in the front cover.......





*I have decided to go another direction with this motor. I took it apart today and I am going to sell parts off. This motor is just like new. I don t think it has 20,000 miles on it, the hone marks are still in the cylinders like its new. I think I can make more money selling parts than the whole engine. Tell your friend if he wants the bracket I will sell it for 125.00 and 40.00 for shipping and handling. 165.00 total. If anybody needs parts for one of these motors I have some real nice stuff. Thanks

Jim Brownell*




Steve

[Arkin]

Many thanks for your help. But mine lq1 needs rebuilding, electrics and accessories redone. It's doomed, to be honest, and it will cost 2000$+ to get it done. Now I fully belong to idea of inserting 3500 in lumina. I can sell my rebuilt transmission and that will cover the cost of monte carlo! I will get modern low mile engine and trans and everything.

I wish there were no underframe or motor mounts job. But the most scaring things for me are installing cooling system, rerouting battery and fuse boxes, connecting brakes and power steering, providing power supply for interior fuse box, installing accel pedal and connecting ignition switcher (or do I have to change all steering column? I will if it fits).

You told about fuel system. I suppose I can stay with my present pump, sender and lines?

[55trucker]

I don't want to put you off but you've a large task ahead of you....

the LZ4 engine is one of GM's *high value engines* a *fly-by-wire* engine (no throttle cable), the fuel system is returnless (no return lines back to the tank), the engine is VVT (variable valve timing), the ECM controls the majority of the instrument cluster, nothing currently in the Z will operate this engine/powertrain, I'm not saying it can't be done but it's a huge task, your location being where you are you just can't pick up the phone or get online and order parts you may need at a reasonable cost.

in my opinion you'd be better off dropping in an LA1 engine (3400 pushrod) keeping your present simpler electrical system, getting the needed OBI chip & having a tune put on it to run the engine. But again, these parts are readily here but not so there.

[Guest]

May take is just a little different than 55trucker's.

I say forget the LZE (Similar to the LZ4, but is flex fuel compatible, and what I have found listed as being in the 2006 Monte Carlo, for a 3.5L, LZ9 was also listed, but is a 3.9L), it'll be far more work than you are prepared for, if swapping a 3.1 into your car was too much in the way of work or just finding parts. To swap the LZE into your Lumina will require a number of custom parts and finding solutions to electrical issues that will arise, especially if you're going to try to retain the LZE engine controls, which will also require keeping the BCM and that means re-wiring the complete car to be a 2006 Monte Carlo, electrically. You could have the PCM tuned, maybe, if someone supports it to remove the PASSLOK and VIN locking, but that still doesn't address all of the mechanical changes that will need to be made, many of which will require custom parts.

My opinion is buy another 3.4 DOHC and drop that in, no messing with custom parts, no changing stuff to other parts, you won't have a bastard of a car that will be difficult to sell, if the need or desire ever arises. I say this simply because it seemed like any other option that is almost as easy put you off because you needed to find several parts that might be hard to come by where you are. Custom parts that don't exist are even harder to come by.

Don't misunderstand me here, I love late model engine swaps in older cars. My 1973 Datsun 240Z has an LX9 (3500 from an '06-'07 G6/Malibu), that required many custom parts and a fair amount of time wiring it up and I went OBD1 using a custom crank trigger instead of the 2006 PCM. I can tell you, that if you're not prepared for all of the work involved, you WILL quit half way through and scrap/sell the car. It just sounds to me like you'll be WAY over your head getting into an LZE/LZ4 swap into an OBD1 Lumina.

[Arkin]

I understand, but please tell me more.
I'm gonna take everything out of z34. Next I deassemble everything from monte, and reassemble it as it was in monte, but under z34 hood. Monte's engine and trans still are controlled by their obd2 ecm and should drive fine, like monte did. Right until here?
Next I expect problems with saloon electrics. Lights, power windows, etc. Do I get fuse boxes from monte, install them instead of lumina's, weld some wires from accessories to it and that's it, no?
If I get ignition switch problems, I use monte's switch, and lock cylinder if needed, and whole column if it fits.

Please tell me exact problems, common with obd1 -> obd2 swap, and I can tell if we are capable to deal with it.

[Guest]

You're over simplifying it. Just getting the drivetrain to mount in the Z34 will be a monumental task for someone who has never sone such a thing, there's no bolt in conversion here. There may be a couple mounts that will be close, or if you're REALLY lucky actually fit like they should so that you can at least locate the drivetrain, but often times this won't create proper drivetrain angles, then there's the axles, you may be able to get away with one set or the other, or possibly swap the hubs, but most likely custom axles will be needed. Then dropping the electronics into the car isn't as simple as you're thinking it's going to be, there's a lot of modifying that includes door modules, and sometimes even tail lights just to keep the BCM happy, and yes you will need to also get the Monta's steering column to mount inthe Z34, but there's another issue, air bags. The Z43 didn't have these and even if it did, the Monte's air bag system will be completely wrong for the Z34, and could actually cause the Z43 to be less safe with them than without.

Why not just drive the Monte?

If you really want to do this, do a little test, first remove the engine from the Z34 (since it needs to come out anyway), but do so in a way that it could be re-installed easily, meaning no cut wires, no damage to anything, and then see how much work just that is. Then set it beside another car, doesn't matter which one, set it beside a car that you can look under the hood and imagine how to make it fit under that hood, and actually move the car.

There are no "exact problems", if they were "exact problems" they wouldn't be, because there would be solutions. This swap is not common, possibly never done before so YOU will need to come up with the solutions. Other people might have ideas or suggestions, but ultimately it's up to YOU to figure out the solutions to the problems you come up against. If you're not prepared to engineer it well, you will build an unsafe vehicle and may not even realize it.

Like I said if the 3.1 swap into the Z34 seemed like too much work, the LZE swap is about 100 times more involved.

[Arkin]

3.1 swap within platform in not a problem at all especially if I get the whole car. I got rid of the idea with swapping 3.1 from beretta, better find lumina donor for it.
Anyway, I don't risk anything with monte. I can buy it, I can try swap, I can put things back, I can sell carlo, lq1 and trans with profit and install 3.1 then, I can sell lumina w/o docs, I can drive monte with lumina's docs and still can sell it for good money (brutal, right, but the cars are so rare that it will work here). The reason why I want to stay on Mina cause I love z34, and I hate Carlo, it's ugly. I only risk time, and some hundred bucks to put motors in and out. I have a man who will handle with hardware custom, I have man who can handle with electrics. If I pay - things will be done. I'm in.

[Guest]

3.1 swap within platform in not a problem at all especially if I get the whole car. I got rid of the idea with swapping 3.1 from beretta, better find lumina donor for it.

THIS is the reason I say do not even attempt the LZE swap. the 3.1 swap from a Beretta is FAR, FAR, FAR easier than the LZE swap. I don't think I can stress enough how much easier the 3.1 swap is than the LZE swap you propose. The 3.1 swap scared you enough to not do it because you had to find some BOLT ON parts. Imagine how much harder custom parts will be to find.

Anyway, I don't risk anything with monte. I can buy it, I can try swap, I can put things back, I can sell carlo, lq1 and trans with profit and install 3.1 then, I can sell lumina w/o docs, I can drive monte with lumina's docs and still can sell it for good money (brutal, right, but the cars are so rare that it will work here). The reason why I want to stay on Mina cause I love z34, and I hate Carlo, it's ugly. I only risk time, and some hundred bucks to put motors in and out. I have a man who will handle with hardware custom, I have man who can handle with electrics. If I pay - things will be done. I'm in.

I hope you succeed, I just don't think you realize just how much work this is going to be.

[Arkin]

Forget thar beretta, man) that's the question of budget, not of scarying me shitless) Why buy parts for swap, if there are swap-ready lumina's selling. I will buy monte during a month, take out lq1 and trans, and at the end of january I hope to start the work. Will post a new tread with pics and vids. With your help we'll win. If it will sucks - I have options. More to this - I have stealth and firebird to drive, so things are under control. At least I won't be disappointed if it leads to nothing.

[Guest]

Forget thar beretta, man) that's the question of budget, not of scarying me shitless) Why buy parts for swap, if there are swap-ready lumina's selling. I will buy monte during a month, take out lq1 and trans, and at the end of january I hope to start the work. Will post a new tread with pics and vids. With your help we'll win. If it will sucks - I have options. More to this - I have stealth and firebird to drive, so things are under control. At least I won't be disappointed if it leads to nothing.

So the cost of the parts to swap the Beretta engine made you decide not to go through with it? I can guarantee you that the LZE swap will be far more costly. Far. More. Costly.

[55trucker]

Arkin:

apart from the camshaft complexity that the DOHC engine has.......what happened to yours (apart from the broken tensioner bracket & the needed front cover) to lead you to this point where you don't think it is worthwhile repairing yours or getting another DOHC engine for your Z?

[Arkin]

As for mechanical part. I've seen that one piston was replaced for some reason. There is a smoke from oil filling hole. There are leaks here and there. There are issues with cooling syst. There are vacuum leaks. Ticking noice. As for electrics there are problems with sensors for sure, running rich. Component location sucks too.