DOWNGRADE 3.4 to 3.1 short questions

[Arkin]

hi
yeah, I know. but that 3.4 pissed me off. it's around 20 years in Ukraine with 180K miles on it, I have it for almost a year and still can't drive my 'Mina for good.

just wonder if I can stop the misery by swapping with 3.1.

I have it from BERETTA GT 1992 MT for some hundred bucks nearby, do I just swap everything under the hood including ECM into my LUMINA Z34 1993 AT, or do I have to find ECM from w-body with 3.1 AT? If so I still can't understand why there might be such a problem with ECM. By the way what about PROM in ECM?

thanx

[Arkin]

ok, I got it, I need lumina both ECM and PROM for 3.1 AT just because I got AT, and the 3.1 I'm looking at is paired to MT.
do I need 1993 ECM or 1991-1994 are all fine?
what parts from my 3.4 I have to install with 3.1 engine? P\N switch for sure. What about brake booster, power steering? Radiator from beretta won't fit I suppose and I have to pair my 3.4 radiator with 3.1?
help please

[Arkin]

I've also found out :
3.1 w-body got one lower motor mount, so I need it to install 3.1 from beretta
3.1 from beretta doesn't have upper torque mount but the w-body 3.1 require two mounts. they are of three parts each, I don't know what to do with it yet
next I'll have to fit the downpipe to 3.1
P\N switch has to be left on car and connected to new ECM
harness from beretta's 3.1 will connect ECM and engine, harness from z34 will connect to dashboard

still don't know what to do with power steering, brakes and coolans sys

[55trucker]

reading your other thread on your DOHC problem...


concerning the electronics ......the ECM used in the OBDI application DOHC (3.4) engine (16149396) for 91-93 is the same ECM used in the 93-94 LHO (3.1 engine) but ONLY in the W body application. That's the ECM housing... not the mem-cal chip. You can't use the Beretta ECM case because there is no provision made for controlling the electronics in the 4T60E transmission that was used behind the DOHC. You can still use the same DOHC ECM you have but you have to get a mem-cal chip from a 93-94 W-body that has the 3.1/LHO 4T60E transmission combination. You won't need to replace the wiring harness but you will have to make alterations to it to accommodate the different locations of the various sensors.

ECM 16149396
1227727 w/ additional SRAM

Application:
1993-94 3.1 V6 PFI “T” LH0 (“W” body)
1991-93 3.4 DOHC V6 PFI “X” LQ1

MEMCAL IDs: “T”: BDJS, … “X”: AYSZ, BBUK, BCDT, BCFA, …

EPROM type: 27C256

[Guest]

reading your other thread on your DOHC problem...


concerning the electronics ......the ECM used in the OBDI application DOHC (3.4) engine (16149396) for 91-93 is the same ECM used in the 93-94 LHO (3.1 engine) but ONLY in the W body application. That's the ECM housing... not the mem-cal chip. You can't use the Beretta ECM case because there is no provision made for controlling the electronics in the 4T60E transmission that was used behind the DOHC. You can still use the same DOHC ECM you have but you have to get a mem-cal chip from a 93-94 W-body that has the 3.1/LHO 4T60E transmission combination. You won't need to replace the wiring harness but you will have to make alterations to it to accommodate the different locations of the various sensors.

ECM 16149396
1227727 w/ additional SRAM

Application:
1993-94 3.1 V6 PFI “T” LH0 (“W” body)
1991-93 3.4 DOHC V6 PFI “X” LQ1

MEMCAL IDs: “T”: BDJS, … “X”: AYSZ, BBUK, BCDT, BCFA, …

EPROM type: 27C256

The '7727 is the same as a '7730, just in a weatherproof case. Neither will control an electronic transmission.

The 4T60E was not used in the W-body, at least not in the years you cited. It was a non electronic 4 speed, one name being 440T4, I can't recall the later model designation, but it was still a non-electronic transmission.

[55trucker]

The 4T60E was not used in the W-body, at least not in the years you cited. It was a non electronic 4 speed, one name being 440T4, I can't recall the later model designation, but it was still a non-electronic transmission.

DUHHHH......the 4T60E was/is the default trans behind the LQ1 DOHC engine.....which is a W-body engine

[Arkin]

Ok so I'm still hanging around the idea of swapping that beretta's 3.1 MT into z34 AT, AT remains. Once again I will ONLY need:

-ECM with PROM from w-body 3.1 w/ 4t60E, meaning 1993-1994 years
-One lower motor mount for w-body 3.1
-Two upper motor mounts for it, will need to make them fit since beretta's 3.1 doesn't have any upper mounts at all

Seems that's totally it? Just plug and play?

[55trucker]

I wish I could say it was that simple, but.........

on the mechanical side things you'll need....

W-body

upper & lower rad hoses for the 3.1
3.1 engine thermostat housing - unique to the 3.1 in the W body
power steering pump - W body 3.1 application, reservoir is unique (is not the same as the DOHC application)
power steering high pressure side line - unique to the 3.1 in the W body, not the same as the DOHC
exhaust downpipe - 3.1 is 2" diameter, DOHC is 2 1/2" diameter, cats are not the same as well,
fuel lines - I'm not sure whether the hard lines fitted to the rails used on the 3.1 are the same across the board for all applications, they may be shaped differently depending on the platform the engine was installed into.
Power brake booster vacuum supply line to intake plenum
heater core supply side rubber hose at engine
airbox & snorkel for the 3.1 engine - not quite the same as the DOHC airbox

those are the items I can think off of the top of my head

the upper torsion mount you can probably get away with just the one support assembly (above the trans), the right side (passenger) support is a large beast that's not easy to come by

if you go into Rockauto, do a search on the different parts that are needed for the powertrain applications with regards to the W body.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

[Arkin]

Now that sucks.. thanx for a good answer anyway. I will forget about beretta. I'd better look for 3.1 from w-body with downpipe. Damn I love z34, don't wanna loose it.

[55trucker]

How much can you afford to spend on the car where an engine is concerned?

wouldn't you be better off the find the *engine plate* and replace your to get your engine running again?.......instead of going the path of putting a different powertrain into the car?

*realizing* that this IS in the states....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-GM-3-4-Liter-V6-Twin-Cam-Engine-/321895390584?hash=item4af275dd78:g:FWIAAOSw~bFWITIn&vxp=mtr

[Arkin]

Good idea, though I'm not sure that's the way. Shipping within US and next to Ukraine will cost around 1000$ (if it weights around 200kgs). That's much.
3.1 is a much more simple engine, with long lifespan according to what I've read and it's easy to rebuild.

[55trucker]

Try contacting the seller & see if he would separate the front cover & sell just that to you.

what's the exchange on the Hryvnia against the U.S. dollar? I know it has been devalued since the unrest there over the last two years.

[Arkin]

Trucker, I'm very pleased talking with you. You know the deal.
The lq1 will cost +1000$ to get it out of the states. Might be more rational to build my own motor.
There is one more interesting possibility to solve my issue. I have 2005 montecarlo nearby with 3400 engine. I can get a car for a 1000$. If I will not mind about dashboard, can I direct bolt it in with trans and everything it comes with (4t65e)? I hope there would be minimal changes in underframe and axle shafts, remembering it is the same w-body though a late one. Anyway I have an option to use monte's axles and suspension since I can get the whole car. As for the dash - I'm thinking of installing 95+ dash w-body, or even use aftermarket dash or HUD that powered from obd2 terminal. What do you think? Thanx

[Arkin]

Sorry, that's 2006 monte with 3.5, not 3.4. I suppose it doesn't matter anyway

[55trucker]

The 3500 engine (LZ4) is a more advanced engine than the earlier 3400 (OBDII) or 3.1 (OBDI) engines. The crank trigger mechanism makes use of a 56x reluctor wheel whereas the earlier engines only use a 7x reluctor wheel.

To use the engine as it is in the Z34 would see you transferring the entire fuel/ign/ECM system from the '06 Monte to the Z.