L82 ('99 Buick Century) to LG8 (2000 Chevy Malibu)

[Triumph1966]

Long first post-- so I thought it might be better to summarize what I'm hoping to find help with and then follow up with the background. So here it goes:

-- Torque converter/trans mentioned below... What's the best way to determine if I'm going to have an issue there?
-- Any challenges with upper/lower intake/fuel injector swap?
-- Since the heads were installed and at least partially torqued with new head and LIM gaskets in place, can I still use the gaskets without a problem?

And now the history...
Over the course of the past year I've received some sound information from a few threads on this forum dealing with the most common 3.1 L/V6 issues. Figured it's time to join in the fray! The problems I had originally with my Vin M Buick and the infamous LIM/head gasket failure weren't resolved after I paid "some guy" (translation: "not a pro") to perform a swap (L82/Vin M to same) that shot craps after 6 months. (main bearing) So this time, intending to keep the car for my teenage son, I bought another junk yard engine and decided to do the swap myself and take it slow. Make it a father/son project.

I bought a Vin J engine that came from a 2000 Malibu. I was assured the only difference was the timing cover... Keep the timing cover from the Vin M Buick and we'll be good to go, was the advice.

The intent was to make this a conscientious swap. All gaskets replaced, heads reconditioned, clean it all up, make it hum. So far, it hasn't happened nearly as pretty as the picture in my head.

First challenge: Despite following Chilton's to the letter-- we somehow missed unbolting the torque converter from the flex plate and the engine come out in rough fashion-- torque converter still attached. Significant scratching on the converter journal resulted where it meets up with the trans. Anyone know if this problem, by itself, is a concern? If not, anything else (trans related) to worry about with the rough pull?

Second challenge: Over-torqued the "new" Chevy LIM and cracked it. Then... realized the old one fits just just fine. Seems fine to simply use the old upper intake plenum as well. Hoping to get some confirmation that this is A-OK...

Third challenge: This one was a combination of Chilton's advice that could have been better combined with my decision to visit a hardware store to confirm head bolt size/pitch. Figured I couldn't go wrong with the hardware store check since the last time I needed specific fastener information, auto parts stores didn't have it. (Turns out head bolts are an obvious exception. My previous searches were for not quite so common fasteners and only dealerships had that info.) Anyway, after the over-torqued bolt issue we already had, we wanted to ensure clean threads and proper torque readings. Chilton's advises using a tap to clean threads... not a thread chaser... a tap. So-- hardware store supplied bum specs on the head bolts, we bought an oversized tap, and screwed up the cylinder head bolt holes. Fortunately-- thread repair has been successful.

Definitely had our hands full-- but a great learning experience and, so far, still significantly cheaper than having it done "conscientiously" elsewhere.

Also-- if using the old LIM is not a concern, it could turn out to be a bit of a blessing the "new" one cracked. The fuel injectors from the Buick are in much better condition. I would have needed to replace a few of the of the Chevy's. And it seems to me the injectors from the Chevy aren't compatible (size-wise) with the Buick's.

Hope this is enough to go on... and that someone has the patience to read this entire post . Started this project in December and had rotator cuff surgery 3 weeks ago. Need to do as much as I can myself and guide my son to complete the rest as soon as possible. Poor kid needs a car-- and I need to get aggressive with fast, sound advice so we can finally complete this job ourselves.

Thanks!

[Heartbeat1991]

Long first post-- so I thought it might be better to summarize what I'm hoping to find help with and then follow up with the background. So here it goes:

-- Torque converter/trans mentioned below... What's the best way to determine if I'm going to have an issue there?
-- Any challenges with upper/lower intake/fuel injector swap?
-- Since the heads were installed and at least partially torqued with new head and LIM gaskets in place, can I still use the gaskets without a problem?

And now the history...
Over the course of the past year I've received some sound information from a few threads on this forum dealing with the most common 3.1 L/V6 issues. Figured it's time to join in the fray! The problems I had originally with my Vin M Buick and the infamous LIM/head gasket failure weren't resolved after I paid "some guy" (translation: "not a pro") to perform a swap (L82/Vin M to same) that shot craps after 6 months. (main bearing) So this time, intending to keep the car for my teenage son, I bought another junk yard engine and decided to do the swap myself and take it slow. Make it a father/son project.

I bought a Vin J engine that came from a 2000 Malibu. I was assured the only difference was the timing cover... Keep the timing cover from the Vin M Buick and we'll be good to go, was the advice.

The intent was to make this a conscientious swap. All gaskets replaced, heads reconditioned, clean it all up, make it hum. So far, it hasn't happened nearly as pretty as the picture in my head.

First challenge: Despite following Chilton's to the letter-- we somehow missed unbolting the torque converter from the flex plate and the engine come out in rough fashion-- torque converter still attached. Significant scratching on the converter journal resulted where it meets up with the trans. Anyone know if this problem, by itself, is a concern? If not, anything else (trans related) to worry about with the rough pull?

Second challenge: Over-torqued the "new" Chevy LIM and cracked it. Then... realized the old one fits just just fine. Seems fine to simply use the old upper intake plenum as well. Hoping to get some confirmation that this is A-OK...

Third challenge: This one was a combination of Chilton's advice that could have been better combined with my decision to visit a hardware store to confirm head bolt size/pitch. Figured I couldn't go wrong with the hardware store check since the last time I needed specific fastener information, auto parts stores didn't have it. (Turns out head bolts are an obvious exception. My previous searches were for not quite so common fasteners and only dealerships had that info.) Anyway, after the over-torqued bolt issue we already had, we wanted to ensure clean threads and proper torque readings. Chilton's advises using a tap to clean threads... not a thread chaser... a tap. So-- hardware store supplied bum specs on the head bolts, we bought an oversized tap, and screwed up the cylinder head bolt holes. Fortunately-- thread repair has been successful.

Definitely had our hands full-- but a great learning experience and, so far, still significantly cheaper than having it done "conscientiously" elsewhere.

Also-- if using the old LIM is not a concern, it could turn out to be a bit of a blessing the "new" one cracked. The fuel injectors from the Buick are in much better condition. I would have needed to replace a few of the of the Chevy's. And it seems to me the injectors from the Chevy aren't compatible (size-wise) with the Buick's.

Hope this is enough to go on... and that someone has the patience to read this entire post . Started this project in December and had rotator cuff surgery 3 weeks ago. Need to do as much as I can myself and guide my son to complete the rest as soon as possible. Poor kid needs a car-- and I need to get aggressive with fast, sound advice so we can finally complete this job ourselves.

Thanks!

Without a picture of the damage, I can't tell you much about the torque converter issue.

The intake manifolds are different between the two. The easiest thing to do at this point is going to be to re-use your old intake manifold, both upper and lower.

I'd be a bit worried about the cylinder head threads in the block. How did you fix it? You said you bought an oversized tap . . Are you o longer able to use the correct head bolts?

[Triumph1966]

Attached photos... I actually had taken a few last month but decided not to post them after looking at them again last night. Not real clear photos. Hope these are better. Also included photos of the splines.

I did notice the larger upper intake ports on the Chevy engine-- but was very happy when I realized there was no difference when it came down to the mating surfaces on the heads of the Chevy and LIM of the Buick. So I figured this wouldn't present a challenge... Although I still have a small concern whether there's anything electronic to worry about. (For example... is there a modular component expecting the improved airflow and will not getting it cause the engine to run lean?)

Believe me... I was fairly wigged out about the messed up holes in the block. Several days of research eventually convinced me of the viability of a Heli-coil solution. Heli-coil sells an extra long insert for factory spec TTY head bolts. (M11 X 1.5) Described this solution to an assistant mgr at a parts store and he ordered the required drill bit, the inserts, and the tap for me... I picked them up the next day. Drilled out the first hole and when I tried to tap it for the insert... I realized 2 things. He sold me the wrong tap and the installation tool didn't come up with the inserts. Long story short... I quickly found the entire kit somewhere else and it works like a charm. The messed up holes from the over-sized tap weren't too big for the Heli-coil repair... otherwise I would've ended up with Big-Sert.

Granted... the only way to tell for sure about the Heli-coil repair is if I'm going to be able to torque to specs. Just don't want to reassemble until I'm confident I'll be able to use LIM gaskets and the head gaskets I've already torqued most of the way down once. Don't want to buy them again unless I have to...

[Heartbeat1991]

I don't see anything on the converter that would be horrible. If there is any kind of burr on it, try to smooth it down.

As far as a heli-coil on a head bolt. .. . let us know how that works out. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with it. But that doesn't mean it couldn't work.

[Purple pit]

You will be fine on the big port intakes. If you want you can use 99 Venture van injectors(19lbs vs 17lbs and they "bolt" right on).
I'm a tad uncomfortable with the heli-coils, but there is not going to be very many foot lbs for them to hold. To me it is a crap shoot.

[Heartbeat1991]

You will be fine on the big port intakes. If you want you can use 99 Venture van injectors(19lbs vs 17lbs and they "bolt" right on).
I'm a tad uncomfortable with the heli-coils, but there is not going to be very many foot lbs for them to hold. To me it is a crap shoot.

I was under the impression the heli-coil is in the block, where the heads bolt on. Those take plenty of torque. Additionally, he broke the large port LIM, so he is going to re-use his small port intake setup on the LG8

[Triumph1966]

You're right Heartbeat1991... The threads on the block were my biggest concern. (But there is indeed a design difference on LIM injector ports that doesn't allow for swappable injectors.) As far as the Heli-coils go-- I feel pretty good about them. Time-sert seems like an even better solution-- but more than double the price. I ended up scoring the heli-coil kit for nearly half of the usual price which made it around a third of the Time-sert idea. Even if something goes awry with the heli-coils-- there's comfort knowing that Time-sert's "Big-sert" kit can solve your problem even if you screw up a screw up. I've attached an image of the heli-coil pdf that discusses the compatible head bolt kit.

So any thoughts on the gaskets? I bought the good Fel-Pro gaskets and wondering if there's any harm in throwing them back on after they've already been subjected to some pressure from the bolts we were able to torque at first.

[Triumph1966]

You will be fine on the big port intakes. If you want you can use 99 Venture van injectors(19lbs vs 17lbs and they "bolt" right on).
I'm a tad uncomfortable with the heli-coils, but there is not going to be very many foot lbs for them to hold. To me it is a crap shoot.

Thanks for the tip on the Venture injectors... The engine we have on the stand needs to get up and running right away-- but we plan on completely rebuilding the one we removed. Hoping to peck away at that one over the course of time... but wouldn't you know it? Two more teenagers not far off from getting behind the wheel. Simply more justification for sharpening my skills... Not the sort of parent willing to equip my kids with anything requiring monthly payments (even if I could afford that sort of thing AND the insurance). But no hesitation in helping them pick out something used that they can afford and I can fix/improve upon if needed.

[Purple pit]

Read this topic in the morning, then posted later in the day. Somehow I twisted the facts. In other words forget everything I said. The van injectors are for going from small to large ports.

[Triumph1966]

Read this topic in the morning, then posted later in the day. Somehow I twisted the facts. In other words forget everything I said. The van injectors are for going from small to large ports.

no problem... but I think your post still helps me. I was just planning to acquire another LIM (to replace the one I cracked) when I'm ready to put the yanked engine back together again. In other words-- instead of using the LG8 as the foundation for the next project, I'll use what I have to turn the foundation of the L82 into the next generational version.

Probably should save "phase 2" for a future thread since it's not related to the challenge at hand. I'm sure there are bound to be several not so obvious things to work out. Got a little bit of a head start since I already put together a spreadsheet that compares specs. All the basic specs are exactly the same. (sizes, tolerances, clearance, capacities, etc.) Thinking I'll need to focus on the guts-- and base the rest on what future vehicle we decide to use the engine for. Actually what I like about this engine... tons of possibilities.

[Heartbeat1991]

If you torqued down the head with a head gasket in there, I'd replace it. You can probably get away with re-using the intake gasket if you don't see any problems on it.

[Purple pit]

Good luck on the heads. The last piece of good info I have is this: When using the big port intakes be sure to swap your small port throttle body shaft into the TB. That way you can use your old linkage.

Oops. You must grind the big port upper for the small port rocker arms. Or use the big port rockers.

[Triumph1966]

Update... took some extra time on the bolt holes. Wanted to work out a way to be as precise as possible without a drill press, mag drill, or bringing the block to a machine shop. Looked into all of those ideas and more-- and eventually decided to simply dive in. Bought a good drill and the best possible bits and stepped up 1/64th of an inch at a time prior to tapping the holes for the inserts. The heli-coils all seated perfectly and the heads were torqued to specs. I will say that despite how good everything looks so far, my brain is telling me there's no possible way I drilled perfect holes. This nagging thought will continue to occupy space in my head, well, forever. Just praying that thread engagement and clamping pressure is adequate to survive as long as we require.

Also realized that the torque wrench I had been using wasn't calibrated correctly. Purchased a new one-- the type that doesn't require calibration-- and also bought a digital torque wrench adaptor from Harbor Freight. Nice to see the torque wrench reading and the reading on the adaptor match up when in use. Decided on this idea after noticing a crack on the oil pan flange. (Quite glad I didn't give up the core to the junkyard at this stage.) This, now the second over torqued and ruined aluminum part, was enough to help me fully understand how tricky it can be to "simply" install a few bolts in that material. Still taking my time-- but hope to have everything together by this coming weekend. I'll be sure to provide some pics and more info as I progress.

One more thing... I've never taken an engine block completely apart before but decided to start this process on the old engine ASAP. Two reasons... knowledge of the things that could have gone better on our first big project combined with desire for a contingency plan using the old block-- and due to curiosity about the lower engine noise and spun bearing theory I received from a couple of reputable mechanics. (The diagnosis that inspired this project to begin with.) So far... bearing caps have been removed and I see no issues or scoring on the visible side. Still digging... but based on the noise... I'm surprised the damage wasn't immediately obvious after removing the caps.

[3400-95-Modified]

You probably were hearing a typical piston slap and under informed techs said it was a rod bearing.

I haven't had to repair block threads yet but I just had my heads time-serted for all the rockers seeing how they have been installed and removed many times and I'm also bumping up the spring pressure this year. Wanted to ensure that none of the rockers ripped out the threads. I would have normally done this myself but with the heads going to the shop for valve work and spring pocket cutting I figured I would let them do it and I would know they are all straight

[Triumph1966]

Finally completed installation of the cannibalized ("hybrid") engine assembly and it started on the first try. I was shocked and thought... hey-- not bad for someone still recovering from shoulder surgery and learning as I go. The engine sounds great and all seemed good... but I'm getting a sporadic "Low Coolant" signal. Replaced the sensor... didn't fix the issue. Attempted to bleed the air out... no dice.

By "sporadic" I mean that it always comes on-- but it doesn't always remain on.

If you've been following this thread, you might remember my mention of the cylinder head bolt hole thread issue and my concern about re-using the LIM gaskets after they've been mostly torqued down once already. I'm worried now that this could actually be related to the low coolant light coming on. I decided to chance the re-use of the gaskets after all. This was purely out of reluctance to spend the money again. Especially since I was already pessimistic about achieving a positive outcome on this first big project of ours.

If coolant is escaping to internal places it's not supposed to go-- could this trigger the light to illuminate? For the record-- given the shortage of confidence I have in our developing skill level-- I'm more likely to imagine the worst possible situation than something simple. There's no evidence that coolant is finding its way to the oil-- but it's hard to block the self-imposed guilt trip brought on by knowledge of mistakes that have been made.

There was something I noticed about the connector for the sensor. A chunk of plastic is missing and the clip that attaches to the sensor doesn't exist anymore. The wires seemed intact though-- so I cleaned it, taped it up, and re-used it anyway. So there's that. Maybe I just need to swap out connectors?

Reluctant to let my son drive the car routinely until we sort this piece out. Anxious for helpful feedback/suggestions.

**Update**
Found this TSB on an Edmunds forum:
Bulletin No.: 04-06-02-007
Date: August 11, 2004
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Low Engine Coolant Level Indicator Always On (Diagnose Low Coolant Level System Operation/Check Sensor for Oil Contamination)

I'm thinking the "oil contamination" thing is a possibility-- but probably (I'm hoping) not from the currently installed configuration. The Low Coolant light illuminated before the "new" engine was installed as well. Judging by the oily residue I spent the day scraping off of the coolant recovery tank (spoke to O'Reilly and CarQuest-- neither can get me a new one)-- I'm thinking there may be enough of that gunk circulating in the rest of the cooling system to cause the light to illuminate.

All of this said-- I have yet to witness the cooling fans do their thing. Will set about troubleshooting... Pleased to hear from anyone to confirm theories or float some of their own as well.