Swap 3.4 2000 impala engine to the Grand Prix 88

[viper83]

Hi!
My name is Siarhei and i'm novice on this forum.
Sorry for the my english - it not so good as i want

I have a Pontiac Grand Prix SE auto with a 2.8 v6 engine.

This is the car photo before rebuild starting.



Now the car is under reconstruction, but the old 2.8 engine is really bad... So i plan to swap new engine into the Pontiac. I founded a 3400 engine with transmission from the 2000 Chevrolet Impala.

Refer to the Photo below:





The engine is in good condition, so i believe the Pontiac with this engine could be the good project.

As i can see from this thread somebody already did the same swap

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/41908-1988-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-SE-5-speed-3400-swap

But i cannot find the details of this process.

So maybe you can help me and say, what additional parts i need? Do i need a Impala harness and impala engine ECU? Is it possible to combine Pontiac harness with Impala engine ECU?

Thanks!

[Purple pit]

Odd looking Grand Prix, but I like things that are not ordinary.
This should help if you have not seen it already.

http://crzyz28.sytes.net/images/banners/portal/gm_v6/31-to-34-swap-guide.pdf

Did you get any cyclones this year?

[viper83]

Odd looking Grand Prix, but I like things that are not ordinary.
This should help if you have not seen it already.

http://crzyz28.sytes.net/images/banners/portal/gm_v6/31-to-34-swap-guide.pdf

Did you get any cyclones this year?

Purple pit, you are awesome! This pdf loks like all, what i need
I wiil investigate this and hopefully will find the answers. But i already see, that the document describes almost the same case.

Thanks!

[viper83]

Hm... I have a lot more questions after reading this article.
As far i understand from this guide, i should use my 1988 ECU and 1988 engine harness, with 2000 3.4 engine. But, will my 88 ECU works correct with 2000 3.4 engine?
And about tranny. That's whould be great to use 4T65 with 3.4, but not my old 88 transmission. But i understand, that the 4t65 required the 2000 engine ECU...

So, maybe it possible to swap 3.4 with 4t65 with 2000 ECU into my car.

[1988GTU]

your instrument cluster will not work and your car will run ok enough with a 1990 3.1 gp computer. best to buy a tune for it.

[viper83]

your instrument cluster will not work and your car will run ok enough with a 1990 3.1 gp computer. best to buy a tune for it.

1988GTU, did you mean, that 3.4 engine will work fine with my transmission and instrument cluster only if i change my ECU to the 1990 3.1 Computer?


So, at this moment i see the following cases:

• Use the 3.1 ECU from the 1990 GP with my 1988 wiring harness, with 2000 3.4 engine and my 1988 auto transmission. For this case i should follow the swap tutorial and all be ok. As far i understand
• Use 2000 Impala ECU with 2000 Impala harness with 2000 3.4 engine and 4t45 transmission. This case is the most difficult but is the best for me, because my tranny is bad too. So far, this option is a dark horse for me

What you think?

[viper83]

just leave the link for myself. It looks like i getting the good info

http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php?topic=5012.0

http://www.v6z24.com/specs/3400specs

http://www.v6z24.com/howto/3400/engine_prep

[1988GTU]

1988GTU, did you mean, that 3.4 engine will work fine with my transmission and instrument cluster only if i change my ECU to the 1990 3.1 Computer?


So, at this moment i see the following cases:

• Use the 3.1 ECU from the 1990 GP with my 1988 wiring harness, with 2000 3.4 engine and my 1988 auto transmission. For this case i should follow the swap tutorial and all be ok. As far i understand
• Use 2000 Impala ECU with 2000 Impala harness with 2000 3.4 engine and 4t45 transmission. This case is the most difficult but is the best for me, because my tranny is bad too. So far, this option is a dark horse for me

What you think?

Following the install guide; the 3400 (not to be confused with 3.4) will pretty much work with your stock configuration as it is. However, to better the outcome, you would use the 3.1mpfi computer (assuming both trans are identical [I'm unsure if there was a vss difference and if there was would it raise any issues] ) as it would already warrant the Speed Density upgrade without any doubt and enable a slightly better tune over the 2.8L memcal. With the computer change, you will find that some emission stuff will require changing to the same year computer used items. Such as: egr, evap, air pump if equipped. Also, some wiring harness adapting will likely be needed. That would be the injector harness, MAF to IAT socket connector swap, maybe something else.
You might consider just swapping the engine bay harness as well as computer from the 90' gp you plucking parts from.


The stock 3400 mated to that stock trans after a fairly stock rebuild done to it can be ok for a while, but dont expect much reliability from the trans past a few bolt-on's done to the engine.

You could use that trans 45E trans with the 3400 if you use a controller. I have the controller that i speak of and I have used it across various gm fwd transmissions. But it wasnt easy to obtain and the price is no longer as affordable (if still able to be bought) to when I bought it.

[viper83]

1988GTU , thanks!

I think, the best way is to rebuild my stock 4t60 and use it with 3.4 engine, because, as you mentioned, 4T45-E required aditional controller and will cause additional problems.

So, my config will include the following items: 3.4 impala engine, 4t60 transmission, 3.1 90-91 mpfi computer (with the auto trans firmware), stock wiring harness with connector changes. And, you... Will the 90-91 MPFI computer works properly with my 4t60 tranny which have not electronic control?



Btw, could you clarify, what controller for the 4t45-e do you mean?

[viper83]

Hm... And another one question.
I just looking for the engine photo and can not undersand, what the additional tube on the oil filter...

[1QUICKHATCH]

The extra tube is part of the factory oil cooler, you can hook it up if you want but it will most likely take some custom work. Might be easier to remove it until you get it up and running.
Easiest way to do this swap is to use the 2.8 engine mounts and wiring harness.

- swap the knock sensor and oil pressure sender over from the 2.8.
-get a throttle cable from a 94-98 w-body with a 3100 (Monte carlo, Grand prix, cutlass, lumina...) you may still need to work out the kick down cable if you have a 3spd auto
-you may need a newer lower rad hose since you have a '88 and the older 2.8's had a larger inlet on the timing cover for the hose
- you will need a 3wire coolant temp sensor from I think a 96-98 3100 grand am to allow you to keep your Guage on the dash working.
- you will need an egr adapter to keep it working, may need to make one...
-I'm thinking that the upper rad hose needs changed too 94+ 3100 w-body
- exhaust will need some work

That is all that I can remember right now, but I will add more if it comes to mind!

[viper83]

The extra tube is part of the factory oil cooler, you can hook it up if you want but it will most likely take some custom work. Might be easier to remove it until you get it up and running.
Easiest way to do this swap is to use the 2.8 engine mounts and wiring harness.

- swap the knock sensor and oil pressure sender over from the 2.8.
-get a throttle cable from a 94-98 w-body with a 3100 (Monte carlo, Grand prix, cutlass, lumina...) you may still need to work out the kick down cable if you have a 3spd auto
-you may need a newer lower rad hose since you have a '88 and the older 2.8's had a larger inlet on the timing cover for the hose
- you will need a 3wire coolant temp sensor from I think a 96-98 3100 grand am to allow you to keep your Guage on the dash working.
- you will need an egr adapter to keep it working, may need to make one...
-I'm thinking that the upper rad hose needs changed too 94+ 3100 w-body
- exhaust will need some work

That is all that I can remember right now, but I will add more if it comes to mind!

1QUICKHATCH, thanks! You always can add info - that would be great

I will buy the engine on the next week, so i provide the additional photo. But now i see, that this engine is not from the Impala, but from the Pontiac Aztec. But this not matter.

From the provided links i collected all info, what i need, but i still have several questions:

• I should swap the ECU from 90-90 3.1. Will this ECU require additional tune? I have 4T60 (NOT 4T60-E) tranny, will this fact affect the ECU choose or the ECU is same for the auto and mech tranny? I ask because 4t60 does not have the electronic control
• What about MAF? Should i use my MAF?

[viper83]

Hi, guys!

So, the swap is done and the engine installed into the my 88 Pontiac. I used all recomendations from this topic and other threads and pdf manual.

So, my setup is next. 3400 engine from 99 chevrolet venture. The stock engine have Multec 1 injectors and 99 fuel regulyator. Let me call this Stock 3400 setup. Also i bought the fuel injectors Multec 2 and fuel pressure regulyator 2000+ for them. To make this setup work i bought swap 3400 chip adapter from Wot-Tech. This chip adapteronly necessary for the setup with Multec 2 injectors and regulyator. This setup needs only MAP sensor. The MAF sensor not used.

So at this moment i have the problem with engine starting.

- Start the stock setup. 3400 engine with MAF, MAF, stock ECM, Multec1 injectors. The engine is starts, but works bad, like old hot rod, misfiring, shots in the pipe. And i have a check engine lamp and 34 trouble code. (About MAP as i can see).

Stock 3400 setup

- Start 2000+setup with Wot-Tech adapter, non MAF, Multec2 injectors, 2000+ fuel pressure regulyator. The engine is starting to work but immediately stalling a second or three. There is no error code.

2000+ setup. You can find the video folowed by this link

I change spark plugs, spalrk plugs wire, ignition coil, ignition module, all sensors and the result is the same. Also, when i prepared the engine to installation, i change the timing chain.

You can see the mark on the new chain an sprockets below.



So, please, help me if you can. I really don't know, what to do next.

[viper83]

Rate the compression

6 cylinder - 12.3
4 cylinder - 13.2
2 cylinder - 11.9

1 cylinder - 14
3 cylinder - 14
5cylinder - 12

Also i record the with working engine.

This is stable working with disconnected vacuum tube. So the additional air goes to cylinder without MAF and MAP checking. Engine could work stable only with disconnected tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bZGKho24bE

And on this video you can see unstable working with all tube and sensors connected

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNHtqhgU1Yw

And here is the photo of the new sparg plug after several minutes of working

[SappySE107]

What happens if you open the throttle once it starts running? The adapter is installed on the stock chip, like this?




Chip on adapter across from the chip on the memcal

Running the stock 2.8 chip with 3400 Multec 1 injectors is going to be rich like the plugs show. How does it run with the WOT-Tech adapter/chip with the stock 3400 injectors and the 2000+ regulator? That might be worth testing.