v6 swap into Opel Kadett (German Chevette)

[63a16p]

I'm bringing my Opel Kadett back from Europe and plan to do an engine/trans swap in the near future. Based on my research, a FWD 60 V6 converted to RWD (T5) is the best option. The FWD engine is shorter and lighter than the RWD 3.4 which makes up for the additional hassles of converting a 3x00 engine to RWD. I know I will need to modify the FWD oilpan and fabricate exhaust headers for any FWD 3x00 engine. My plan is to do the swap in phases with the final version being a 3500 v6 modified to produce approx 240hp. My goal for the initial phase is to get a 3x00 engine installed and work out all the engine/trans mounting issues and get the engine running well and use that as the base for a future upgrade to a 3500 with internal/intake/exhaust/ECM modifications as required to reach approximately 240hp. The car will not have AC or PS so only belt driven items will be water pump and alternator.

Now for the question- What is a good engine to start with (year, car model, etc) that will be the simplest swap (primary concern is computer/wiring modification) and allow for future ecm tuning to accomodate a stock or modified 3500 engine? I assume any of the 3x00 FWD ECMs will need to be reprogrammed to work with a manual transmission but please correct me if that is an incorrect assumption. I also realize I will need to add an external crank trigger for the 3500 but want to start with an ECM/wiring harness that is suitable for that modification.

I apologize if these questions are already answered i previous posts. I did a search but couldn't find some specific info that pertains to my particular swap.

Thanks

[Superdave]

I would start off with a 3500, 2004-2006 LX9 from a Malibu or G6 (probably some other cars as well). IMO i'd just get it in there if that's your eventual goal. That will save you from making new mounts eventually.


For the ECM either run a standalone like a Megasquirt or use a OBD1 ECM (1227730) and harness from a Cavalier, Sunbird or Beretta (or similar car). They came as 5 speeds and the ECM's are extremely tuneable so you can run the 3500 just fine.


Are you shooting for 240 HP @ the wheels?

[63a16p]

Thanks for the quick reply. Your first answer may reveal a bad assumption on my part. I thought all the 3x00 Gen 3 V6s were externally the same so engine mounts/exhaust would be the same for 3100/3400/3500.

For the OBD1 option, what year Cav/Beretta/SB would have the right ECM and harness? I assume I should buy the complete harness and ECM from a donor car but should I also get all the engine/trans mounted sensors or will I use all the sensors from the 3500 engine excepting the external crank trigger?

240 is the long term goal. I assume that will require headers, new cam, larger TB (and adapter plate) and injectors.

Thanks

[Superdave]

The 3100/3400 are the same but the 3500 is just different enough to be aggrivating. Haha

I would shoot for a 91-94 v6 cavalier harness. You'll want to use the knock sensor from the old 3.1 v6.

With a 3500 most use a fuel rail from a 3400 since it uses a standard return setup. 3500 is returnless. With a stock to mild 3500 you can also use the 3400 fuel injectors since they are the right height vs the 3500 short ones.

You'll need a throttle body adapter to use a regular tb on a 3500 (stock is electronic). Brittish car conversions sells the adapters and good throttle bodies.

I'll probably think of more later. Hope that helps though.

[63a16p]

Your info is a huge help. I'm hoping to do some scavenging from the local Pick-Your-Part so will start looking for a Cav V6 5 spd. I didn't realize there were any 3x00 engines that came with 5 spd so that would eliminate one of my ECM programming hassles. I'll also plan to get the knock sensor with the harness/computer. I assume the knock sensor is in the side of the block or oil pan. How hard is it to remove with the engine in the car? Will the 3400 injector harness plug into the 3100 wiring harness or will I need to modify one of the harnesses?

Thanks again for the help.

[neophile_17]

Hello,

If I may, I'd like to put in another opinion. It's easy to be at the final result and wish you hadn't taken any of those side tracks but you do learn a lot from them. My first swap was a 3400 (LA1) into a Fiero and I deliberately simplified a number of items because I know me and I loose motivation if the project drags on. I was on an even tighter budget then as well. There were three main factors that kept me from the later motors (LX9, LZ4, LZ9): I could buy a proven tune (may be available for an LX9 now), I didn't have to adapt a non-stock ignition (for the engine), and I could adapt my current exhaust to work. Between the three I was able to simplify my setup and reduce my budget to a surprising extent. The whole project took a couple months and that system lives on in my endurance racer and allowed us to win our class in October. As I write this I'm building up a 3500 (LX9) and it is definitely a better platform that will make almost 75hp more by the time I'm done. However, without the knowledge from that first swap I honestly think I would have gotten side tracked and sold the whole thing for a loss. I guess what I'm trying to say is look at what you've got and where you want to be and make a realistic plan. If you're OK with not driving the car until next Spring (assuming you're avoiding salt) and you have the discipline, go for the 3500. If you're hoping to drive a couple miles this fall then just look at getting something running and then use your experience to tell you what you want to change. BTW Dave is one of the elite 60V6 guys and what he says is gold but if like me you need a little hands on experience then I don't think you could go wrong with a 3.4L or 3400 to start out.

Oh and I hate to say it but you're in for adapting a wiring harness no matter which path you choose.

Good luck,

Sam

[63a16p]

Sam,
Various opinions always welcome. I can see advantages to both approaches. The path I take will probably be chosen by whatever engine I can get for a good deal. I will be fabricating engine/trans mounts and also swapping in a heavier rear axle modifies to replace the stock torque tube rear end.

I converted my 72 Bronco to Ford EFI a few years ago and I assume this will be a similar process. The Ford EFI system required deletion/modification of many sensors/switches/circuits to run as a stand-alone in my Bronco. However, the Ford 5.0 EFI systems stayed fairly similar for many years so I didn't have many options regarding which ECM/harness to use.

Thanks

[Canyonero]

Hey, I'm also swapping a 60º into an Opel Kadett. I have all the parts, but the project has been stalled for a while. I have '70 Kadett Rallye that will be getting the V6, a running and driving 1971 Kadett Wagon with the 1.9 CIH and 4-speed, and I have an Opel GT with the 1.9 CIH and auto (rough abandoned vehicle for parts).

I have a variety of 60º engines laying around, but I think I'm going to use a Gen-II 3.1L from a '93 Cavalier Z24 simply because I have an entire parts car (winter rollover that I picked up on the cheap). I also have a rebuildable '90 Gen-I 2.8L from an Isuzu Trooper (used FWD block with starter on the left), and I have an LX9 that I had planned on swapping into my Trooper but never did. I may try to sell it. Probably won't use it because the motor mounts and oil pan are so much different and won't be as easy to make clear the Kadett subframe. And the subframe can't be clearanced much because of the transverse leaf front suspension.

If cost isn't a big issue, there are RWD conversion parts available, but if you stick with the older engines, you can get RWD exhaust manifold/headers, timing covers, accessories, etc much cheaper.

[Canyonero]

For the transmission, I'll be using a T5 out of a newer S10 pickup with a 2.2L - same bell housing with the starter on the left to match a FWD block. I have a Trooper flywheel and pressure plate (had laying around, I don't know what else is interchangeable, or if this combo will even work) with an S10 clutch disk to match the transmission input splines. I forgot the year of S10 I got it from, but it uses the newer "Ford" bolt pattern T5. The T5 output matches the splines of the Opel auto driveshaft, I'm not sure if the 4-speed is different. My Rallye was an auto. Shifter position is good if you get a pickup transmission. The camaro T5 will put the shifter too far rearward. I have not figured out the clutch release yet - may need to use a hydraulic throwout bearing.

I gathered the parts a while ago, so my memory is a little hazy, but I've got a little more motivation to get this project going again.

[Canyonero]

I responded to your PM, but I'll go ahead an post the info here too, in case someone else searches for it.

I have not completely figured out the clutch yet, but I have an idea. I am using a 94-95 S10 2.2L T5 transmission which has GM metric bell housing with the starter on the left like a FWD. I will be converting the clutch to hydraulic, using the S10 slave cylinder and flywheel/clutch assembly. For the pedals I plan to get a whole pedal assembly from some other car with a hydraulic clutch, I will probably use the matching brake master as well and cable throttle.

I will be using a 3.1L Gen-II engine from a '94 Cavalier Z24 (just because I picked up a whole wrecked but drivable car for cheap). The Gen-II engine is not a 3x00 and uses a non-structural stamped steel oil pan like the Gen-I, which means I can bolt on a RWD pan from a Camaro or maybe even a 4x4 pan. I don't know about the '78 (which I should, I used to own an '81 Isuzu I-Mark), but the Kadett-B uses a transverse leaf front suspension, so you can't box or modify the front subframe. Modifying the structural cast aluminum pans from the Gen-III/IV engines is more difficult, they have a windage tray and cross-bolted main bearing caps which make them a lot bulkier on the bottom end.

[63a16p]

The 73-79 Kadett uses the exact same coil spring front suspension as the Chevette. Based on my measurements, I will need to take a significant section out of the 3100 oil pan for crossmember clearance but will have plenty of room for the pickup. I know I will lose oil capacity so I'm considering using dual remote oil filters to regain some oil capacity.

[Canyonero]

What engine is in that car now? Is it fuel injected?

Since you don't have the transverse leaf, you might be able to reshape the subframe a bit so that you don't need to take as much out of the oil pan.

I'm putting the V6 into a rough Kadett Rallye that I got for scrap value, so I'm chopping on it as necessary to get the V6 installed. I've already cut out a good portion of the firewall and transmission tunnel. I have a Kadett Wagon that I'm being gentler to. I'm keeping the Opel CIH engine and 4-speed for now, but I'm going to try to convert it to some sort of fuel injection. Once I get the V6 swap figured out with the Rallye, maybe I'll do a cleaner V6 swap in the Wagon.

[63a16p]

My Kadett has a carbed 1.2 liter, supposedly put out 53 hp on a good day. The V6 will be a huge improvement. I'm trying to do all mods without any cutting to the body/firewall/subframe. I think I can modify the oilpan enough to avoid any changes to the subframe. However, I do have an extra subframe to experiment on if that becomes necessary.