LX9 RWD Swap - timing cover and pump specifics

[Mars]

Yeah Dave has the right idea there...

I also welded the WOT trigger wheel to the back of a ASP underdrive pulley to fire the ign. coils... no accesory spacing required...

[Superdave]

Evolving a little.. just need to order up the parts to make a good turnbuckle and find a belt that will fit. I added in an idler on the other side to help make better water pump contact.




Once it's all finalized i'll cut out some flat plate and make the PS pump bracket solid, right now it's kind of nice to be able to move things around.

[socorob]

Sorry to resurrect an almost year old thread, but this is exactly what I'm contemplating doing. I have an Alpine with a Ford V6, and its not worth upgrading. I've been looking at a few different engines that could possibly squeeze into an alpine engine bay. The LX9 is the one I like the most so far. Right now I'm just in the research phase. Before anything else can go into my car, I have to deal with its funky steering setup. I have been reading this forum for at least a week now, and THINK I might know what to start looking for to do a RWD swap. I need the engine to be as short as possible and would like to stay with as many factory parts as possible. So If someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but here is what I think I need.

1. 3500 non VVT engine, reverse intake.
2. 94-95 S10 2.2 bellhousing. I already have a Ford T5 in my car, so it would save a lot of money and work if I could just do everything from there forward. Doesn't the S10 bell let you put a Ford T5 straight up?
3. A flywheel from a 2.2pushrod engine? Would that be like a 98 Cavalier?
4. I guess a pressure plate from the same cavalier? It looks like it would need a 9-1/8 inch clutch.It looks like centerforce part #183-DF228035 Has the 9-1/8 diameter with the ford 1-1/16x10T size. Can you mix and match the clutches and pressure plates? Also on the S10 bell, does the throwout bearing arm need to be pulled towards the front of the car or be pushed towards the rear?
5. Possibly would need a 96 Beretta or grand am oil filter adapter?
6. Thermostat housing and throttle body adapter, possible throttle body also from TCE?
7. Front engine cover and pulley setup / water pump from a V6 camaro? Does this make it the shortest possible length?
8. TCE RWD headers.
9. Now this is where I'm clueless, ECM and wiring harness. Would I just use the LX9 ECM and can those be tunes? Or get a 1227730 ECM from a 90-92 camaro? Then what would be needed for a harness? I think I read something about modifying a Cavalier harness, but I didn't see a year or what was needed.

WHEW! That was a lot, but I'm trying to see what options are available out there. My goal ultimately is NA 230 WHP. That will put me at 10 pounds per whp, which I will definitely be happy with. Thanks in advance, I'm hoping and trying to learn more about these engines. If I do go this route, I think it will be my 1st ever GM powered vehicle.

[caffeine]

For 3 and 4, the 2.2L flywheel is probably the best bet. They should be the same part # between 2.2 S10s, 2.2 J-bodies, and 88+ 2.8 and 3.1L FWD V6s.

The 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4L RWD V6s use a thicker flywheel and have a larger ring gear. It's possible to use a 9/16" starter shim with a RWD flywheel but it may place the pressure plate at the wrong distance from the TOB.

Both FWD/2.2 and RWD flywheels all have the same pressure plate bolt pattern, but I'm pretty sure the RWD pressure plates protrude farther from the flywheel. The 3.4L RWD engine uses a 9 7/8" disc and IIRC is the largest stock disc. If you order a clutch from a clutch manufacturer and specify a custom spline for your transmission it shouldn't cost much if any extra.

6. You may or may not be able to use the stock thermostat housing probably depending on rad hoses and accessory placement. It's fairly easy to make a TB adapter for an LX5 Oldsmobile TB, or you can buy one.

7. I got my timing cover from a 90s S10 with the 2.8. I think most of the RWD timing covers are the same but the water pumps are different. Probably Camaro/Firebird accessories with an electric fan will be the closest to the block.

9. Probably the easiest and definitely cheapest engine controller is a 7730/7727. You could probably start with a Cavalier or Camaro harness but it shouldn't really matter since all of the vehicle-specific stuff will be removed anyway. Hard to describe how to graft it into your car since every car would be different

[socorob]

Thanks for the quick reply! I may be visiting. A u pull it yard this weekend and wanted to see if they would have anything I would need. I have an electric fan, and from that to my firewall is 24-1/2". Thats to this bulge line that goes across the very top. My v6 sits just under it. If the gm engine goes under it also, that will give almost another inch of clearance.

I would want the largest clutch possible. So a 3.4 camaro flywheel will bolt to the 3.5? Do you know if anyone makes a SFI rated one for it?

Does the lx5 have a 65mm TB? And what year cars are those?

Do you happen to know what year car had the 7730/27 ecu? If I find one should I grab the harness for it also?

[caffeine]

I have a 3.4 flywheel bolted to my engine, but afaik the only SFI flywheel that will bolt up is a fidanza aluminum FWD flywheel.

The lx5 TB is 65mm and comes on some 99-02 Intrigues and Auroras with the 3.5L DOHC engine.

The 7730/7727 comes in a wide variety of vehicles, including 90-92 F-bodies and many V6 J-bodies. If you grab the harness with it it will just make wiring easier since most of the sensors will plug in. You will also need the knock sensor. 7727s mount under the hood and 7730s mount in the car.

[socorob]

I've read your engine and transmission builds, very nice stuff. Does the lx5 TB bolt straight on and you just port the intake some, or do you need to make an adapter plate? If I could ask you a HUGE favor, could you measure the length of your engine from the back to the front of the furthest pulley, not including any of the turbo stuff, just what it takes to be NA with electric fans.I'm in no hurry, and would appreciate it very much. All I can think about lately is 100 more hp in my car, and tax refund time right around the corner.

[caffeine]

I can probably do some measuring on the weekend.

LX5 TB needs an adapter. WOT-tech.com sells one. I made one out of 1/8" thick aluminum using countersink bolts and some minor grinding to the plenum. The TPS and IAC that are on the LX5 throttle are compatible with a 7730 so get a TB with those still installed.

I should add the LX5 throttle has the same size opening as the LX9 plenum. No porting necessary.

[socorob]

Thanks. Does the TB stick out past the pulleys?

[caffeine]

Judging by my pictures I would say the front of the TB comes out only as far as the alternator pulley.

[socorob]

Did GM use the same block for the 3.4 LA1, 3.5 and 3.9? Is it hard to disable the VVT or can something control it?

[Superdave]

Did GM use the same block for the 3.4 LA1, 3.5 and 3.9? Is it hard to disable the VVT or can something control it?

no, the 3.4 LA1 (3400) is a gen 3 block, the3.5/3.9 VVT 60v6's are gen 4. There are quite a few differences in the blocks and parts.

Disabling the VVT has been done, browse this topic for more info... http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthre...ght=3900+fiero

[socorob]

Thanks for the link. Am I correct in thinking the 3500 and 3900 block are the exact same dimensions? If one would fit then the other would also. Can you use the 3.4 front cover and pump on the 3900 or does the vvt mechanism cause a fitment issue? Also do you happen to have a measurement on the length of the complete engine?

[caffeine]

I'm measuring about 22" from the bellhousing face to the front pulleys, maybe 23" on my 3500

[socorob]

Awesome! Thanks for that. It looks like the 3900 and 3500 are the same size from what I read? I also read somewhere that the 3900 has a windage tray. I autocross my car once in a great while and plan on doing it more and throw in some track days once I get some more power. Does the 3500 or 3900 have any oil starvation problems during hard cornering?