LX9 RWD Swap - timing cover and pump specifics

[shapeshaver]

OK I have been reading and reading and searching for a direct answer to what exactly is needed to put a RWD style cover and pump on my LX9. I have been to the pick and pull but only saw one 3.4 Camaro but I am unsure if that cover and pump will work...will it?

What I really want is an old school look with a traditional belt that drives the pump and the alternator. Now as I read I am confused if there is an issue with these covers and my oil pan.

I know this has been discussed many times, but a little clarification with donor type and year possibilities would really be awesome!

And, why is there not a sticky on this site that has a comprehensive guide for the Gen III to RWD swaps. it all seems to be common knowledge for many here.

Thanks for your assistance!

[NateD4]

I'm not sure of the specifics, however I had looked at this same question regarding a Gen II 3.4 (3400). My Fiero 2.8 essentially uses the same timing cover as the Camaros. There is a difference between how the oil pans bolt up.

I can't remember which is which anymore, however I think the Camaro 2.8 and Fiero 2.8 Have an angled oil pan gasket surface on the timing cover. The newer engines have a flat surface with a radius on them.

Which does your LX9 have?

I can check what might work, as I have parts from 2.8 Cast heads, 3.4 Cast Heads, 3100, 3400 and LZ 3900 engines sitting around.

If memory serves me the 3.4 Camaro oil pan interface will work on the newer 3100/3400 (and probably LX series) timing covers.

[shapeshaver]

I'm sure I guess because I don't know what "angled" means. Does the older style project at some angle other than 90 degrees from the block face?

My engine is an '06, so I would imagine the pan would have the latest style in the evolution of sealing schemes, which would be the straight surface as opposed to angled?
.
So if the 3.4 Camaro cover will work, does the Camaro come with a reverse flow pump with the serpentine belt system? I don't want the serpentine system so I think from what I have gathered that I need the pump from the 2.8 RWD engine out of an s10 then, right? And that old style pump will bolt to the Camaro 3.4 front cover?

[CNCguy]

You cannot use a CW pump on a CCW housing. I am not sure about the years but there were some RWD covers in the early mid '80s that use a CW rotating pump and will work with the FWD oil pans. They were only available for a year or two. You can buy a brand new one on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/140364272386...84.m1423.l2649. If you have plenty of room in front of the engine you can use a S10 or Jeep V-belt pulley setup which is pretty long. For a more compact setup, some people have used a serpentine crank and ALT pulley with one of BCCs billet WP pulley on a Fiero water pump. Others have scoured salvage yards and put together a V-belt setup using parts from various cars.

[shapeshaver]

CNCguy, I think I read somewhere in one of the threads that you were making a billet pulley for the CW pump, is that right? And if it is have you done so and is it available? I have not seen it in any of your store items.

Thanks for the post for the ebay cover...purchased.
Does this cover only accept the s10 2.8 water pump?

(PS, I emailed you on your killer b site asking this same question, you can disregard it. )

[CNCguy]

We made a small batch of the pulleys and should have one or two left. I've been slacking on the site due to a negative attitude about car parts lately. That cover will accept the S10 pump or Jeep pumps which are long. It will also work with the shorter Fiero pump which is what our pulley was designed around. I would post a pic of that setup but left my flash drive at work.

Edit: You will need to do some mods to the cover. If you need some info on that, I have some pics on the BCC site showing what needs done.

[shapeshaver]

So that means the cover to use for the conversion to RWD of a 3500 LX9 and use a clock wise rotating pump is a gm part# 14100617 and 12509037 for the 2.8L which was used in the 82 - 86 S10. This is also the part number of the timing cover for the 3.4 liter crate engine offered by GM. Then I can use a water pump from the same S10 years.

Is there a problem with the pulley on this pump matching up with the stock LX9 damper pulley?

Can I reuse the alternator that came on the LX9?

[Superdave]

I used a 2.8 RWD timing cover from an 89 Camaro and it's stock water pump, it worked fine after the needed modifications.




I am switching to a 3.4 cover only because the outlet is smaller at the bottom and it'll work better with the 3.4 lower radiator hose i'm using.




The 3.4 accessory brackets also work on a 3500 with some light modification, the only issue i ever had with them was visual.

[shapeshaver]

Dave, did you use the V belt or a serpentine style belt on your pulleys? Do you have a good pic that shows your belt arrangement? I was not aware there were any differences between the 2.8 and the 3.4 cover and pump assembly. I thought the 3.4 was designed as a drop in replacement for tired 2.8's?

BTW, I have watched your you tube videos and read about your car, nice job! It was influential in my decision to use the GM motor in my Sunbeam as opposed to the nissan VQ engine or another.

[shapeshaver]

I would like to keep the assembly as short as possible. So I should get a fiero 2.8 pump then? Where do I find the cover mod pics on your site?

[CNCguy]

The FWD damper has the pulley built onto it whereas the RWD unit uses a bolt on pulley. They are not interchangeable. I would decide on the pulley setup before buying a water pump. The S10/Jeep setup is too long for the MG swap but may work for your application.

We do not use the LX9 alternator in our swaps. The mounting setup is strange and, for the MG swaps, the stock mounting bracket locates the alternator so high that it interferes with the hood. Also, I have been told they are computer controlled but can't say that is a fact. Your pulley setup will also dictate which pulley is needed on the alternator.

Have you decided on what you will be using for engine management?

Edit: I will send you some pics and a link via email tomorrow from work.

[Superdave]

Dave, did you use the V belt or a serpentine style belt on your pulleys? Do you have a good pic that shows your belt arrangement? I was not aware there were any differences between the 2.8 and the 3.4 cover and pump assembly. I thought the 3.4 was designed as a drop in replacement for tired 2.8's?

BTW, I have watched your you tube videos and read about your car, nice job! It was influential in my decision to use the GM motor in my Sunbeam as opposed to the nissan VQ engine or another.

Thanks!

I used serpentine, can't stand the old V belts.. lol

This is a pic from last year with the cast aluminum 3.4 brackets installed. They worked very well other than cluttering up the engine bay.



The exact parts in there are;

3.4 Camaro alternator & Bracket (and tensioner on a modified bracket)
3.4 Camaro PS pump bracket & ICM mounting pad
2.8 Camaro timing cover and water pump w/2.8 Camaro pulley
Stock 2.8/3.1/3.4 RWD crank pulley

Here it is as of 5 minutes ago, excuse the layer of dust.




I've got the PS pump bolted to the front of the water pump/timing cover with some quick brackets that i made, i think that's a 2.8 Camaro alternator(was just laying in my pile of junk). I'm going to try to find a turn buckle to use as a tensioner.

[shapeshaver]

I really want the shortest pulley setup I can get. I am assuming that to do that I would use the stock damper pulley. The alpine has even less room under the hood than the MG I believe, so I had better keep it as compact as possible. I am wondering if I will have issues with the alternator hitting the wheel well if mounted out to the side and hitting the hood if mounted up above. What alternator do you use with your kit? Does the water pump pulley you make work with the stock damper pulley?

I guess I am going to use an OBD1 computer. I would prefer to use the OBDII that came with it but I guess that doesn't work because it's not programmable as easily as the OBD1? Is there a guide showing how to adapt my stock harness to the OBD1? I know you sell a harness kit and I may have to go that rout but this "simpler" V6 swap is getting expensive! I guess I could have gone with a 3.4/5 speed drive train out of a Camaro if I wanted to save money and keep it simple(r). But hp potential and tunability are important to me in the long run. Plus, I like modern AF ratio control because here in Utah I can climb 4000 feet in elevation in an hour and a half on my favorite alpine drive.

[shapeshaver]

Dave, thanks for taking that picture. So you went with a reverse rotation pump. I assume because you have power steering, the serpentine setup worked best with your PS pump? I am not planning on power steering at this point but may want the option in the future. I guess I should keep that in mind.

[shapeshaver]

I sat the engine in the car to check the fit. I think everything will fit fine. I posted a few pictures and measurements on the web page.

www.lx9alpine.com
Any thoughts?