3400/325 e30...project GMW!

[95SleeperAcheiva]

gatta ask, cavalier pic.... off the intake tube going back to the intercooler....what is that black collar looking coupler with the small braided line going back to the TB?

[MidnightriderZ24]

its an inline blow off valve

[Mars]

Holay lots of room in the engine bay !

EDIT :

If you plan on using this for Drag, put a cage in the car, cause it'll run tens easy I think.

[ForcedFirebird]

Holay lots of room in the engine bay !

EDIT :

If you plan on using this for Drag, put a cage in the car, cause it'll run tens easy I think.

Actually the chassis is not a good drag car. The race car makes 360whp at 15psi, weighs 2160lbs with a full tank and with 15x10" rims/Hoosier 275/35 slicks we were only able to get a 12.3@117 at 21psi (never dynoed that high) - even with it setup as much as you can a independent rear. Many many people have gotten well over 400whp (few 500) with the 2.5 i6 and the only guys in the 10's have done a solid axle or upgraded the IRS to Corvette stuff.

The only one I know of to break 9's has the original m20 with a huge turbo making 500+whp, fully caged, tubbed, back halfed with a solid axle and it's still a handful to drive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YGX5QABpFE

Here's what the 562whp/587wtq s52-powered e30 had to do to keep IRS and hook, yet still has only managed a 10.9...

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=119358&highlight=corvette+irs

I think the bigger benefit of the 60v6 in an e30 is going to be the weight distribution. The 60v6 is as short, or shorter, than the m42 (dohc i4 - 140bhp) or the s14 (dohc i4 - 190bhp - ITB), yet weighs slightly less with than the e30 drivetrain.


Very curious to see the results, specially since there's already LS1 e30 kits available that has been done a bazillion times. I would advise NOT to use the t-5, though, like I tole midnightrider on the BMW forum, Ben and I saw the 4th t5 explosion from the LM7 (iron block LS1) e30 at the race a few weeks ago.

[MidnightriderZ24]

im not sure how much drag racing i plan on doing for the exact reasons forced said. i do plan on road course/ auto crossing. as for the t5, gotta figure peak torque will prob be around 3500, not 2300 or so with an lm7. im not saying i wont destroy it, world class t5's are pretty easy to come by, ill plan on picking up a spare or 2 lol. everything is starting to roll now..

[Strike_Zero]

Strong work!!!

PM sent!

[MidnightriderZ24]

old core support cut out and new one in for the radiator and water to air heat exchanger. 80mm throttle body showed up. throttle body will be relocated to this area.

[Will'sFiero]

said to hell with the cav!

Excellent sentiment. I discovered BMW's a couple of years ago and haven't looked back. I still have my Northstar Fiero, but I also started a V8 E30 project... with a BMW V8!

Actually the chassis is not a good drag car. The race car makes 360whp at 15psi, weighs 2160lbs with a full tank and with 15x10" rims/Hoosier 275/35 slicks we were only able to get a 12.3@117 at 21psi (never dynoed that high) - even with it setup as much as you can a independent rear. Many many people have gotten well over 400whp (few 500) with the 2.5 i6 and the only guys in the 10's have done a solid axle or upgraded the IRS to Corvette stuff.

I think the bigger benefit of the 60v6 in an e30 is going to be the weight distribution. The 60v6 is as short, or shorter, than the m42 (dohc i4 - 140bhp) or the s14 (dohc i4 - 190bhp - ITB), yet weighs slightly less with than the e30 drivetrain.

Very curious to see the results, specially since there's already LS1 e30 kits available that has been done a bazillion times. I would advise NOT to use the t-5, though, like I tole midnightrider on the BMW forum, Ben and I saw the 4th t5 explosion from the LM7 (iron block LS1) e30 at the race a few weeks ago.

Did Vorschlag blow up another T5?
I've been thinking for a while that a 60 degree powered E30 would be a really fun ride for exactly those reasons.

I understood that the E30 rear suspension is pretty weak and starts to tear the single rear diff mount off the body at 300 whp or so. Even with the E36 diff cover and an extra mounting ear welded on, the small axles are living on borrowed time. I think Vorschlag broke one in their GRM $2010 challenge car.
Have you done or will you do the rally mods to the rear control arms?

Are the problems people see with them breaking parts; launching soft to save the driveline... Or can they just not be made to hook?

I have heard that an E28 or E34 rear subframe swap solves any parts breakage problems... but if the geometry's not right then the car won't be any faster.

Not sure what suspension they have, but there are E36's pushing into the 8's. The E36 suspension is MUCH more advanced than the E30 suspension, though. There's at least one outfit making a 1,000+ HP rear subframe for E36 cars.

Also, you're fighting an uphill battle trying to make a turbo car fast in the 1/4 with a manual transmission...

[ForcedFirebird]

Excellent sentiment. I discovered BMW's a couple of years ago and haven't looked back. I still have my Northstar Fiero, but I also started a V8 E30 project... with a BMW V8!




Did Vorschlag blow up another T5?
I've been thinking for a while that a 60 degree powered E30 would be a really fun ride for exactly those reasons.

I understood that the E30 rear suspension is pretty weak and starts to tear the single rear diff mount off the body at 300 whp or so. Even with the E36 diff cover and an extra mounting ear welded on, the small axles are living on borrowed time. I think Vorschlag broke one in their GRM $2010 challenge car.
Have you done or will you do the rally mods to the rear control arms?

Are the problems people see with them breaking parts; launching soft to save the driveline... Or can they just not be made to hook?

I have heard that an E28 or E34 rear subframe swap solves any parts breakage problems... but if the geometry's not right then the car won't be any faster.

Not sure what suspension they have, but there are E36's pushing into the 8's. The E36 suspension is MUCH more advanced than the E30 suspension, though. There's at least one outfit making a 1,000+ HP rear subframe for E36 cars.

Also, you're fighting an uphill battle trying to make a turbo car fast in the 1/4 with a manual transmission...

What are you using for your V8 swap? m60b40? If you are on r3v or e30tech, I have the same user name.

The Vorshlag car has gone through 3 t5's as far as I know. They did break an axle last year at the challenge at the CV joint, but they were using used e36 axles (budget racing). Then thier 2nd drag run they blew up the t5. During the year they used the $2010 car at a NASA event, blew a t5, then this year at the challenge they blew the t5. They won the event, but only because the drags were rained out. They weren't liked much at either event, $2010 they never went to any of the dinners, didn't stay at the event host hotel and worst of all, didn't even show to the awards ceremony. This year they came to the ceremony only because they won overall and auto-x. Funny thing is we came in 2nd last year with the e30, this year we went with a 2002 with e30 sub-frames, suspension, and m20 turbo (1st year with new car) we came in like 15th or something overall (7th in auto-x), but got just as many awards as Vorshlag (including editor's choice ). Any Nelson's v8 Beetle pulled a 2nd place in auto-x and smoked Vorshlag on the drags (10.8 vs 15.6) but since not everyone ran the drag they didn't count any of the runs. The 2002 is 150lbs lighter than the e30 and with the same engine combo we ran a 13.8 in the e30, and we set the 2002 susp up for drags so it should have been a low 13car.

The axles are plenty strong, they are solid, but the z3 axles are an easy upgrade. A local here is making 575whp/600wtq with his m30/hx55 powered e30 and hasn't ripped the diff out yet. The z3 m-coupe has more issues with it's single eared diff mount than the e30 does, we just had to do a jobber on one using Randy Forbes' dual ear kit. The race car is making 360whp/400tq with the stock (solid bushed) mounts and have been racing it for 4yrs.

The car has IRS. That's what makes them difficult to drag race. Even the fastest Corvettes swap to a solid axle since an IRS car is just not that great at launching. It's not uncommon for an e30 to have a 2sec 60', even the race car got a 2.01 with nice meats, but made a 12.6@117 trap (power is there, no launch).

The e36 has a multi-link rear, the e30 has semi-trailing arms, so it is better, but those cars have more issues with chassis cracking than e30, never even seen a cracked e30 chassis that wasn't from just plain old rusting.

There are e30's in the 8's, one even has an m20 turbo making 500hp, but it's not an IRS

[Will'sFiero]

S62

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108535

It's cake for Fieros to hit 1.7 sixty foot times on street tires, and they have horrible rear suspension geometry. I don't buy that IRS isn't good for drag racing. The rear weight bias *DOES* help a Fiero, obviously.

I can understand that C2/C3 Vettes might want to convert to solid axles... maybe they just can't get the geometry right with the single trailing arm. That setup is conceptually similar to an E36 rear end.

A C4 should be able to hook just as well with IRS as it does with a solid axle because of the dual trailing arms. Those are JUST LIKE the trailing arms on a four link solid axle setup. At worst, I can see reworking the body pivots to get the geometry right.

My opinion is that *MOST* solid axle conversions of IRS cars are driven by the fact that the solid axle is a known quantity; buy a 4 link out of a catalog, weld it in and run fast with bomb-proof hardware. Independent rear geometry is a lot more complex to tune and the parts to make it as tough as a solid axle are simply not available for anything but a C2/C3 Corvette.

[/soapbox]

[Strike_Zero]

ForcedFirebird:

Small world . . . I REALLY like Condor's build of the White E30!! I wish you guys could've sorted the issues at the UTCC. I was cheering you on!!

[neophile_17]

Out of curiouosity what benefit would a IRS setup for drags have?

[Will'sFiero]

Same as it does for other applications... camber performance, lower unsprung weight.

[ForcedFirebird]

Strike, the car has a turbo blanket now and everything is wrapped, stays much cooler. It's been tracked since and is working much better now, although it's running 10psi ATM, but was 15 at the UTTC.

Will, if you look at the Vette community they actually have an IRS and solid axle class, and the solid axle cars are faster. We've tried all kinds of things to get a better launch - the e30 just doesn't like to launch without changing/modifying the rear suspension and since the race car isn't a straight line car, we don't want to deviate from what's known. There's nothing there to use the upwards motion transferring weight to the rear wheels like you can with a solid axle (think traction bars and torque arms). Then when you do use springs and shock to get the rear to squat, the camber goes extremely negative (e30). The e36 is a different animal all together as you know.

And BTW, I've been kinda following your thread for a while now, will be interesting to see.

[Will'sFiero]

I would have thought you'd be able to raise the subframe relative to the wheels to help the anti-squat in an E30 suspension. That will make the camber go positive. Some of that can be countered with a camber/toe adjustment kit, some with eccentric bushings and some you may just want to leave so that the car has 0 camber when the weight is fully transferred and the suspension fully squatted.

For the AWD S62 there's going to be a lot of fab to get the mid-sump pan on the S62, some hellacious interchanges of Euro-only parts for the front diff and probably custom fab or maybe a stroke of blind luck to get the steering rack and axles to work.