What can I do to this engine.....?

[PerfectCreature]

I have a 2003 Grand Am. I am planning on doing some performance modifications a little bit at a time.
I would like more horsepower at the wheel. I am looking for torque. Basically low end power is what I am after. Top end power I care less about than low end, since I do not live in an area where I can really open it up without risk to myself or others. If the modifications I do bring top end power so be it, but that is not priority.
Anyway. The engine is a 3400 SFI. It has only one modification at the moment which is a short ram intake.
I am not a mechanic of any sorts nor do I have an extensive knowledge of mechanical stuff. Most stuff will be done by a paid mechanic. If I can do it by myself with limited experience please let me know and provide instructions.
My budget is how ever much the parts cost as this will be a over-time endeavor and not an "at-once" type of deal. I realize that Grand Ams are very hard to get power out of due to the heavy bodies and limited aftermarket support, but I would still like to try anyway.
So, with that said; and low end torque being the objective, what parts should I be looking into purchasing and installing to meet my objective.
I do not have access to a dyno or any other means of assessing gains or ability to tune the car. This will be a more or less solo endeavor due to my rather country-side like area. Parts will most likely have to bought online or purchased from members here.
I have read that doing a complete 3500 motor swap is the easiest way to gain the power I would like, but I heard it is a PITA to do...Plus the parts list makes it upwards of $1000 or so to do right?
Anyway.
Please do not tell me to do a search, because I already have. I have gathered a rough idea of what it takes to make the engine more powerful, gain more HP, but which of those will give me that low end torque I am after I am not sure.
So, any help is widely appreciated.

[bob442]

well, i'll start with the easiest to the hardest things to do:

TCE 65mm TB http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/65mm-bi...y/prod_24.html

gasket matched and ported UIM http://wot-tech.com/shop/la1-3400-sp.../prod_145.html

and a EGR block off plate to keep the intake nice and clean
from there, yes, there is the 3500 top end swap, cost will vary from if you supply the parts yourself from a yard or buy them through Wottech, which is just a better piece of mind as there tested and ready to go.

After that a cam for such a purpous

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/mpg/torque-camshaft/prod_240.html

with the heads and cam upgrade theres a few small steps and other parts reccomended to do so thats just extra costs. Factor in that the LIMG's will need to be done eventually if you havent had them done already with an upgraded gasket design. Any help or walk through's that you might need we can all certianly help step by step.
With what you seek i would reccomend doing the upper intake, TB, egr delete (if theres no emissions in your area) and that will be a great start and should meet your needs. Till you get the mod-bug of course

[Superdave]

I'll be completely honest, if you can't do the work yourself it's going to take a lot of money to make a noticeable difference. I'm a N/A guy so i've been there-done-that on these engines. I have over 4K in my engine and i've done all the work myself to make around 350 HP reliably.


If you have the money and time then a 3500 top end swap with a good cam and headers will give you all the N/A power you desire. you will need to have it tuned to get the most out of it, the stock tune sucks bad.

[PerfectCreature]

well, i'll start with the easiest to the hardest things to do:

TCE 65mm TB http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/65mm-bi...y/prod_24.html

gasket matched and ported UIM http://wot-tech.com/shop/la1-3400-sp.../prod_145.html

and a EGR block off plate to keep the intake nice and clean
from there, yes, there is the 3500 top end swap, cost will vary from if you supply the parts yourself from a yard or buy them through Wottech, which is just a better piece of mind as there tested and ready to go.

After that a cam for such a purpous

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/mpg/torque-camshaft/prod_240.html

with the heads and cam upgrade theres a few small steps and other parts reccomended to do so thats just extra costs. Factor in that the LIMG's will need to be done eventually if you havent had them done already with an upgraded gasket design. Any help or walk through's that you might need we can all certianly help step by step.
With what you seek i would reccomend doing the upper intake, TB, egr delete (if theres no emissions in your area) and that will be a great start and should meet your needs. Till you get the mod-bug of course

Okay so first you recommend the 65mm throttle body. Afterward is where you get me a little confused. You mention a 3400 sportsman manifold (UIM), but then you say that a 3500 top end swap would yield performance gains. Would that not involve getting rid of the 3400 UIM that I would have purchased?
What about the 3400 Competition series manifold set that I saw on the WOT TECH website. (Oh, for returning their stuff, do they pay for shipping back or do you?)
Emissions? No, we do not have emissions. Not like California.

Anyway, so it is the 65mm throttle body first? Then what would be next so I can make a check list.

[bob442]

you can use that 3400 upper intake manifold if you go with a 3500 top swap later on, you will need to have your UIM bored out to accomodate the 65mm TB, and there is gains to be had with having the sportsman UIM ontop of a stock LIM, as disscused in a earlier thread:

http://www.60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/47811-Gasket-Matched-Intake-Manifold-and-Throttle-Body

later on if you want to make some real HP, you will be investing some $ like Dave said. But you will get your gains.

You said you were doing this in little steps, one bit at a time, if you started with the 3 things i mentioned, and also got your lower intake cleaned out, you will have some gains, a ported lower will help out even more. A bit of a tune wont hurt either if you could get it done, or maybe a PCM programmed and sent out to you.

If you want more gains after that, i would suggest putting atleast 2k$ away and go for a 3500 swap, cam, timing chain, cam bearings and gaskets atleast. If not that then atleast go for a cam and a tune.

On a side note, you could change your final drive ratio in your trans, but you would have to pull it and have it sent to a shop. Basically you would be having the chain drive ratio changed. That would get you alot better bottom end. maybe cost you around $400-600 with parts and labour if you pull the trans yourself. If you have a shop pull it then...you'll be spending some serious cash. Also you would have to get a different trigger wheel for the speed sensor, or get it calibrated Via PCM tuner. You might be able to get a trigger wheel from a 4t65e, but i'd have to look into that. You should have a 4t45e in your car.
Bob

[PerfectCreature]

Okay, so. Which of those should be done first then?
The throttle body I assume?

Serious cash? Not so much. I do not plan on having this car "run with the big boys" because plain and simple it cannot.
I just want lots of low end torque, the camshaft seems to be the biggest way to get that done. I plan on getting a Pacesetter exhaust later this summer so that should open my power band up quite a bit.

I assume between a 65 mm throttle body and a larger exhaust i should get a bit more power right?
Then that sportsman uim, the camshaft....probably about what...20-30 low end hp? Or are those gains not realistic. This car will only be in my possession for 3-5 more years until I can afford an easier car to modify.

[bob442]

whats so hard to modify about this car? You would/should get the UIM with the TB, as the opening for original throttble body is a whole CM smaller, so it almost defeats the purpous.
Headers, cam and UIM with TB, and a tune should get you alot more power, how much more, i'd leave that for someone who's played with these motors more than i have to answer, if i were to guess, i would ball park it for 30-60 HP at the crank. each mod suppourts the other so the numbers will only go up.

If those mods wouldnt acheive an extra 40hsp at the crank. i'm just gonna junk my project tomorrow LOL

[PerfectCreature]

Okay, so, if I were to save up and wait. Do you know roughly how much it would cost a shop to install the 3400 street package (Stage 1) that wot tech sells? (1999.99) Would it be cheaper to buy that? Since it says it comes with HP tuner that in itself is about $550. It appears to come with pistons and a camshaft like you suggested. Pick up the throttle body as well and that is pretty much everything I would have needed to do right?
Now, does anyone know if they make you pay shipping to return to them the old parts you had?

I am just curious which would, ultimately be the cheapest way to go about this. If buying part by part will be more efficient so be it, but I do not have a way to tune so I am thinking the package may be the best way to go?

Does wot tech offer any discounts for for members?

Just trying to test the water before I actually dive in. You know?

[bob442]

buying it all at once will save you the money, i would try out the UIM and the TB first. Then go from there, it will wake up your car alot.
With costs involved with the stage one kit, if you pull the motor yourself you will save alot of money, the rest is machine and assembally work. If you invested 200$ in a picker, and $100 on a socket set, those tools would pay for themselfs to pull the motor or and the transmission.
There isnt any discounts for being a member, Ben gives really good prices on all his stuff, and usually combining things will save you money in the end. There was once a draw for site supporters, it was 100-10$. work for the motor/assembally should be under/around 800. I could talk you into doing the work yourself for whats involved. But if you have no clue/confidence in what your doing...then i wont help you

Shipping is not paid for by wottech to ship cores back

[PerfectCreature]

Well, if have the confidence. If you show me how or tell me how(instruction wise) that are detailed enough I am sure I could be able to do it. I can repair computers so a motor should not be that hard. More or less plug and play I suppose if you would. Just larger parts.
As for the shipping portion? That sucks, I kind of figured as much. Is there any risk in buying those parts used? The UIM and trottle body I mean.
What do you mean by a picker?
I do have a ratchet set as well. One of those Craftsman 94 piece tool sets, got it black friday for $25. Plus I have a discount there, so it was even cheaper.

So, buying at once is cheaper, but buying bit by bit is more efficient, more or less giving me the ability to say, adjust or make amendments based on results is what I am getting out of it.
The tuning part I have no clue how I would be able to do since this car is my daily driver and not a project car.
Um, from what I read. I need to buy the throttle body first. Then the UIM because they do not go together. I need a torque wrench for the UIM correct? or no?
Thanks for the help. Sorry to be mechanically un-inclined. I am eager to learn though.

[bob442]

just buy a UIM bored out for a 65mm TB from wottech. you do and you dont need a tourqe wrench. you can over tourqe them and crack the manifold.
A picker is used for picking out the motor. its like a cherry picker, but different. If you havent had any experiance with mechanical work i dont want to encourage you to dive into this neerly blind.

As far as tuning, I think ben could write a tune and send it to you, then all you have to do is upload it onto your HP tuner that you would get with the stage 1 kit, and then its plug and play. Aside that, i couldnt even guess how much all the work would cost you to get done at a shop from pulling the motor, tearing it down, putting it back together, and re-installing the motor. If you have a mechanically incluned friend to help you out with alot of experiance, then that would cut the costs down alot to just beer and pizza

[PerfectCreature]

Hmm, yeah. I do have very little mechanical experience. I can do car audio all day long. Wiring and stuff like that. I installed my intake, but that was a piece of cake. Change oil, pfft anyone can do that....so I guess I am pretty much stuck with shop labor. All my friends that were mechanically inclined don't live around here anymore so it is pretty much myself.

I guess trying to mod this car is going to get expensive very quick.
Which of the mods do you think that with limited knowledge and just some research do you think I could do on my own? Or is it better off just giving it to a mechanic. If it was to done all by a mechanic, I think the cheapest method would have to be all at once.
About 3k for the stage 1 kit, shipped with the throttle body 65mm. Then I would think about 75-100 to ship the core back, then what would you think? labor per hour in my area is about 60 for a mechanic. So, how ever long it would take probably around 500-1000 for the tear down the build up plus install. Basically a whole day or more right?
I guess I better start scouting around for a mechanic that will do this cheap.

[bszopi]

Whereabouts do you live? There is a chance there is a member that is close to you that may be willing to help you out, and teach you along the way.

[PerfectCreature]

Live in Maine, near Canada. I could toss a penny over the border I live so close.

[bob442]

yikes, that's next to bumb fuck no where, if you where in ND I coulda helped you out