3100 Lumina engine into offroad buggy

[DrWillys]

Hi, I'm New to this forum and have been reading some of the threads.There are some awesome builds. I have a few questions for my own build. I have a 1951 willys jeep which I rock crawl with. Right now it has the original 4cyl engine which i converted to run on propane and made an adapter to run a t-18 for trans with 6.32-1 first gear. In need of a little more power (NOT ALOT) Just more than the 65-75HP i Have now. I have just been given a 1997 Chevy Lumina with a 3100 engine, trans is bad. My thoughts are to use a th350 using an adapter from Speedway motors. Motor mounts I can fab. I'm building a whole new chassis so i'm not concerned with exhaust or oil pan mods. When it comes to the computer side of the project I need help. Questions #1 my car has a computer controlled trans. and a anti- theft system can I just use a differant ECM or do I need to send it to someone to have it reprogrammed. also is there a wiring diagram available to modify my harness. Option #2 can I run a stand alone harness for the dis ignition if I decide not to use the fuel injection and convert to propane. Any help I can get would be appreciated. Excuse my ignorance on all this computer stuff.
Thanks

[bszopi]

Welcome to the site!

Sounds like an interesting project. What I would do is get an ECM from a early 90s 3.1L MPFI engine (7727/7730) and use it to control the engine. In fact, if you contact ForcedFirebird on here (who also runs 60*Inclusive), he has made up harnesses for people before to do this exact swap. I honestly wouldn't consider option #2, as it really involves too much work since you'd have to switch to iron heads to run a carb.

[pocket-rocket]

I honestly wouldn't consider option #2, as it really involves too much work since you'd have to switch to iron heads to run a carb.

Not to mention, if it weren't for no oil in the pan, a fuel injected engine could run upside down, lol.

+1 on what Brad said and welcome to the site!

[CNCguy]

Ben @ WOT sells DIY 7730 wiring harnesses that would work for your application.

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/obd1-39-730-wiring-harness/prod_278.html

[DrWillys]

Thanks for the info guys I really appreciate it i will check them out. Does the 7730 or 7723 need reprogrammed or is it fine right out of the box? The original reason for wanting to run on propane is it also can run at any angle or up side down. I can vouch for that (ask me how i know) but i feel it is a little safer. I've seen guys in rollover situations where there fuel cell are puking gas all over them and there still hanging in there harnesses. (ask me how i know). I do believe it will be easier to run this engine with the fuel injection I think i will run it like this for awhile. But eventually if i can get the DIS to run stand alone or if i can rotate the intake 180 deg. could i possiblly run a distributor?? I can adapt my propane to the fuel injection intake. Maybe it's a dumb question but the thought has crossed my mind. I tend to do alot of odd ball swaps.
Thanks again for all help.

[pocket-rocket]

Intakes are symmetrical, and can be rotated 180 degrees. The 7730 could run right out of the box, but the ones responsible for that kit (Ben aka sappyse107 and John aka ForcedFirebird) can program the chip to your needs, but I don't believe either of them have dealt with propane running on a GM ECM. I see your concern for being upside down though, especially as many videos I've seen of off road accidents on youtube. I guess for your needs to make it as uncomplicated as possible, what I would do would be rotate the LIM, use a non computer controlled distributor from an old 2.8 from an S10 or Camaro and fabricate an UIM to mount a propane carb on to. You would be giving up some power and reliability by losing the electronics, but it would be much easier to field trouble shoot. It might be possible to mount some of the needed sensors for an ECM and let it run the spark timing though. I've no idea what kind of spark advance propane likes compared to good ol' dino juice. I'm sure it's probably a lot more, so you might benefit from the full 3x00 heads since they are fast burn compared to iron heads. Then again, I'm a DOHC guy, and we don't have all of these fancy schmancy options so I could be wrong in some aspects, lol.

[ForcedFirebird]

Easiest thing to do is get a harness from an earlier OBD1 Lumina and run the power/ignition wires needed, and you will also get the benefit of a water-proof case. The call number on that ECM is 1227727 and actually came in a few different cars (also the ECM we use to make the OBD1.5 conversion harnesses).

For it to be tuned via email, you will need at least a datalog cable, laptop and chip burner, but it can be done, Ben tunes cars over the net all the time. Just email the log, we make adjustments and email you back a corrected file.

Sounds like a fun project! A guy on here did one not too long ago, but got frustrated and dropped the 60* engine in favor of a heavy 4.3 TBI

[DrWillys]

Good stuff, Thanks i'll be in contact after the holidays I need to finish the frame this weekend so i can build engine mounts next week. i'll be in contact after the holidays. Merry Christmas

[geoffinbc]

Sounds like a sweet swap. The nice thing about a 660 is they fit anywhere that a 4 banger fits. A propane swap is doable. I would be easiest to make the DIS run. All it needs is the crank trigger and power. Then you could make a upper intake box to fit the propane mixer. Depending on its size you may even be able to mount it in front of the throttle body.

To avoid the trans adapter and to gain more gears you could easily run a 700R4 from an S-10. the 4X4 version will bolt to all common T-Cases.

[DrWillys]

Ok, I'm back at it. I was nice and sick over the holidays and didn't get as much done as i would have liked. As Forced Firebird suggested i looked for an earlier computer and harness. I have a buddy who works for a junk yard. Sorry an Automotive Recycler, he grabbed me a 7727 computer out of a 1990 Lumina. but the harness was gone. There are other cars he can pull harnesses from. Can i use any harness that would have had a 7727 computer and a v6, does the 7730 have the same connector? and what sensors would i need to change or eliminate now that it will be Obd1. also what emmisions crap can i eliminate. I would like to strip as much stuff off the engine as possible but still make it run. Again strictly an off road vehicle. It gets trailered to our wheeling spot and trailered home. I will run separate wiring for the electric fans and a few gauges. There will be no bells or whistles in this vehicle, no lights, no horns, no radios, no cd players, no navigation systems, no dvd players. Simply a roll cage 2 seats, 4 tires a motor, tranny, transfer case and axles. Sorry I have lots of questions but thats the only way for me to learn. I'm hoping once I see the earlier harness and can compare it to what i have it will all make more sense. Thank again for any help and suggestions.

[bszopi]

Plugs for the 7727 and 7730 are different.

[DrWillys]

Thanks, my buddy just dropped off both a 7730 & a 7727 today. Now I can see the differance. Now I just have to find a harness. I prefer to do my own harness and save some dough. I'm still unsure of what sensors i need to keep. I'm sure the info is on this site you guys seem to know everything about these engines. I guess i need to do more research. My buddy also has a wrecked but complete car with a 3.5 like a 2006 year I could swap him some parts for it. I'm now debating which would be the better conversion. Obviously the 3.5 would have more power but i'm afraid the conversion might be more complicated because of the later year? If i did the 3.5 swap i could fix the trans in the lumina and drive it. I kind of feel bad harvesting a perfectly good car. It sure gets better mpg than my V10 Supuerduty. But i'm already somewhat committed to the 3.1 swap.

[bszopi]

You will need all of the sensors that are required for the ECM and PROM you are using. Do you have the info on what cars the ECMs came out of? With that, we could direct you to the wiring diagrams, which will tell you what sensors you need.

[DrWillys]

The 7727 box came from a 1990 Lumina 3.1L

[Fierobuffoon]

id go the s-10m distributor route and the propane carb on a welded up UIM,then he has almost no wiring issues