3500 (LX9) swap into a Fiero

[86FieroSEv6]

What scrabblegod said about "idling" the power steering pump is the correct method. The only other thing I would mention is to use synthetic fluid due to the heat.

[flimbob]

The PS pump does not appear to be serviceable. I was able to remove the reservoir, but the pump itself looks like the only way to open it is to remove the wire clamp which holds the bottom of the pump to the pump case. Is this the correct way to get at the vanes? I'm making an assumption that the pump is a vane type.

Addendum: I found info on how to get the pump apart, so it looks like I'm moving ahead on the PS pump. I'm assuming the reservoir is needed only to lubricate the pump. I might look into leaving the reservoir off and putting a short piece of hose filled with fluid. The reason for leaving the reservoir off is that it looks like it may cause height problems.

[flimbob]

Decided to use an idler pulley mounted to the same location as the malibus and g6s. Installed the belt from a 2004 malibu and everything functions perfectly. I'm in the process of wrapping up some loose ends such as the CTS. I acquired a CTS from a 96 Pontiac grandam which is the 3 prong type. This will allow me to send info to the gauge and the ecu. Also ordered a 12MM-6FP adapter so I won't have to drill and tap the original CTS location. My ECU is from a 92 Cavalier, so I obtained a knock sensor from that vehicle. Not sure where it needs to be installed. In the process of obtaining the ac flex tubing from a V6 Fiero so I can have an adapter created that will plug and play the 3x00 flex tubing to the Fieros hard tubing.

Starting to think about exhaust creation. Will need a cat here in Texas. Looking at possibly using a Magniflo high flow unit with some flex tubing and some radical 180 and 90 degree bends. Space is tight, so I will consider smaller cherry bomb type mufflers for each output pipe. I intend to reuse my original tips. Will use clamps initially, but eventually get the system welded. I want to keep me trunk completely intact as there is very little storage space on a Fiero as it is. I would like to use 2 1/4" tubing as it is pretty close to stock for the LX9( I think ). Please chime in if you have any input on exhaust ideas, and/or knock sensor location.

[Joseph Upson]

Decided to use an idler pulley mounted to the same location as the malibus and g6s. Installed the belt from a 2004 malibu and everything functions perfectly. I'm in the process of wrapping up some loose ends such as the CTS. I acquired a CTS from a 96 Pontiac grandam which is the 3 prong type. This will allow me to send info to the gauge and the ecu. Also ordered a 12MM-6FP adapter so I won't have to drill and tap the original CTS location. My ECU is from a 92 Cavalier, so I obtained a knock sensor from that vehicle. Not sure where it needs to be installed. In the process of obtaining the ac flex tubing from a V6 Fiero so I can have an adapter created that will plug and play the 3x00 flex tubing to the Fieros hard tubing.

Starting to think about exhaust creation. Will need a cat here in Texas. Looking at possibly using a Magniflo high flow unit with some flex tubing and some radical 180 and 90 degree bends. Space is tight, so I will consider smaller cherry bomb type mufflers for each output pipe. I intend to reuse my original tips. Will use clamps initially, but eventually get the system welded. I want to keep me trunk completely intact as there is very little storage space on a Fiero as it is. I would like to use 2 1/4" tubing as it is pretty close to stock for the LX9( I think ). Please chime in if you have any input on exhaust ideas, and/or knock sensor location.

Why do you need an idler pulley to replace the power steering pump? The timing covers are the same across the 3500s and since the G6 3500 does not use a power steering pump thanks to the electric rack it shouldn't be a problem unless an extra pulley is the difference between the motors. The knock sensor goes in the coolant drain plug hole on the side of the block. You'll need A/C hoses from both cars and a good hose shop to connect the ends if you intend to use the newer style A/C compressor. It will also need to be a little longer than the stock Fiero A/C hose from the compressor.

[86FieroSEv6]

Cannot "knock retard" be "tuned" out of the equation? If not, shouldn't the KS be mounted closer to the head deck?

[flimbob]

Why do you need an idler pulley to replace the power steering pump? The timing covers are the same across the 3500s and since the G6 3500 does not use a power steering pump thanks to the electric rack it shouldn't be a problem unless an extra pulley is the difference between the motors. The knock sensor goes in the coolant drain plug hole on the side of the block. You'll need A/C hoses from both cars and a good hose shop to connect the ends if you intend to use the newer style A/C compressor. It will also need to be a little longer than the stock Fiero A/C hose from the compressor.

The idler pulley is mounted on Malibu/G6 vehicles where the power steering pump normally mounts. My engine was out of an Uplander which has a normal PS pump in that location. I chose not to use the PS pump, so I reverted to the design used on the Malibu/G6. Thanks for the location of the knock sensor. I am indeed using the new style compressor. Instead of modifying the newer style flex hose, I intend to modify a Fiero flex host to connect to the newer style flex hose. I would think it would be cheaper, since the hose just needs to have male connectors installed on a short piece of the Fiero flex hose.

[Joseph Upson]

The idler pulley is mounted on Malibu/G6 vehicles where the power steering pump normally mounts. My engine was out of an Uplander which has a normal PS pump in that location. I chose not to use the PS pump, so I reverted to the design used on the Malibu/G6. Thanks for the location of the knock sensor. I am indeed using the new style compressor. Instead of modifying the newer style flex hose, I intend to modify a Fiero flex host to connect to the newer style flex hose. I would think it would be cheaper, since the hose just needs to have male connectors installed on a short piece of the Fiero flex hose.

That's what I meant regarding the A/C hose, you'll need one from each car in order to join the ends. The Fiero hose is a little unique in it's old age and turned out not to be as simple as removing the hose from the line connection end to the car to expose the barbs, the tubes barely have barbs for the later hose to grip, the center of what would be the barbed area on the Fiero fittings are slightly undercut sort of like a coke bottle and it did not appear the hose from the new compressor would be able to maintain its seal under pressure.

Whatever the case, I wound up dealing with what's probably the best hose and line tech (at Amazon Hose) in Tampa Florida and he explained to me his concerns about the differences and made me a pretty sophisticated piece with a combination of welding, butt barbs and threaded connections. I can unscrew the hoses in the middle. You may do fine since you'll be cutting the hoses in the middle, I completely removed the hose from one of the ends and found something different than what I was expecting. You may also need to purchase the low/high cutoff switch like the one I just purchased to make the system work properly since there is no pressure sensor on the new compressor like that found on the Fiero's compressor. There's no sensor on it to turn the coolant fan on either.

[flimbob]

That's what I meant regarding the A/C hose, you'll need one from each car in order to join the ends. The Fiero hose is a little unique in it's old age and turned out not to be as simple as removing the hose from the line connection end to the car to expose the barbs, the tubes barely have barbs for the later hose to grip, the center of what would be the barbed area on the Fiero fittings are slightly undercut sort of like a coke bottle and it did not appear the hose from the new compressor would be able to maintain its seal under pressure.

Whatever the case, I wound up dealing with what's probably the best hose and line tech (at Amazon Hose) in Tampa Florida and he explained to me his concerns about the differences and made me a pretty sophisticated piece with a combination of welding, butt barbs and threaded connections. I can unscrew the hoses in the middle. You may do fine since you'll be cutting the hoses in the middle, I completely removed the hose from one of the ends and found something different than what I was expecting. You may also need to purchase the low/high cutoff switch like the one I just purchased to make the system work properly since there is no pressure sensor on the new compressor like that found on the Fiero's compressor. There's no sensor on it to turn the coolant fan on either.

Joseph,

Do you have pictures and/or part numbers for the cutoff switch you used? I believe I picked up a cutoff switch that was on a mid to late 90's pontiac. It was mounted in a small tube which was I believe was headed to the condensor. I can provide a picture of it if that helps. What kind of price did Amazon charge for your modified hose? Also, I was under the impression that the 7730 controlled the fan. Am I missing something here?

[Joseph Upson]

Joseph,

Do you have pictures and/or part numbers for the cutoff switch you used? I believe I picked up a cutoff switch that was on a mid to late 90's pontiac. It was mounted in a small tube which was I believe was headed to the condensor. I can provide a picture of it if that helps. What kind of price did Amazon charge for your modified hose? Also, I was under the impression that the 7730 controlled the fan. Am I missing something here?

I haven't installed it yet but I have it along with a new dryer which was pretty reasonably priced. I don't remember what Amazon charged for the hose mod, I know it was less than $80 and less than what it should have been since welding aluminum was involved. I have not wired my A/C system yet so I'm not sure what exactly can be eliminated, or what exactly the 730 will do regarding the A/C.

https://www.ackits.com/pc/57807MD/conversionitems/Low+-+High+pressure+Cut-off+Switch

[86FieroSEv6]

For the 7730, your A/C on input comes to the ECM through the pressure switches from the A/C switch in the climate control panel. A/C clutch request goes from the ECM to the A/C clutch relay. If you have the fans control outputs from the ECM wired correctly, they will light when A/C request is made.

[flimbob]

For the 7730, your A/C on input comes to the ECM through the pressure switches from the A/C switch in the climate control panel. A/C clutch request goes from the ECM to the A/C clutch relay. If you have the fans control outputs from the ECM wired correctly, they will light when A/C request is made.

Thanks for the info! I've got a spare Fiero flex hose on it's way to me. Really don't want to tear down my DD until I'm completely ready to do the swap. Once it arrives, I'll get the custom hose made. I'm thinking of putting the cut-off switch in the custom hose as it would be closer to the ECU and I wouldn't have to snake a new wire to the front of the car. Any thoughts on this? Also, I have successfully obtained a 94-95 smog ( EGR ) tube for the reversion from 2000+ to digital EGR. The digital EGR is now all installed. One step closer to "S" day.

[flimbob]

I received the 12mm-6fp adapter to adapt my 96 3100 3 pin CTS for use with the LX9. I'm really concerned with this approach because the CTS will only thread into the adapter a little more than one thread. It also has a very small area that water actually touches the CTS. I do not see turning the CTS down to fit where the original CTS fits is a viable option. I am also uncomfortable with drilling and tapping the the LIM as it seems you could inadvertently get metal shavings in the water chamber I did read where some have indicated drilling and tapping the thermostat neck. I have removed my thermostat neck and it does indeed seem like a good place to mount the CTS. I have searched the forum to find the right drill and tap size but seem to get conflicting answers. Can someone please chime in with the correct drill and tap size? I can't believe the drill is 7/16 and the tap is 3/8. That would make the hole bigger than the tap. Should it be 1/4 for drill and 3/8 for tap?

[86FieroSEv6]

Don't forget that they are referring to pipe thread sizes for the taps in this case. 3/8 pipe thread is of a larger diameter than 3/8 common thread.

[flimbob]

Don't forget that they are referring to pipe thread sizes for the taps in this case. 3/8 pipe thread is of a larger diameter than 3/8 common thread.

Thanks! I looked it up. 37/64 drill bit for 3/18 - 18 NPT.

[flimbob]

Got the thermostat neck tapped. Is it common for there to be no gasket between the thermostat neck and the manifold? Mine didn't have any type of gasket, just aluminum to aluminum. Sensor looks like it was made to be there. Finished up some small stuff, i.e., modify/mount the 440t4 dipstick tube and mount the coil-pack. Will pick up my modified a/c flex hose tomorrow. Had them install a pressure sensor in the high pressure side. Looking at what can be done to low mount the alternator. Don't want to have to notch the decklid if I don't have to. Just about ready to start looking at the exhaust system. Many of the 3800 swaps over at Pennocks use a similiar design where the cat is mounted horizontally and parallel with the engine. They then use a Flowmaster or similiar muffler that is constructed like a fiero/firebird type.