3500 (LX9) swap into a Fiero

[flimbob]

Starting a swap into my Fiero. I have thought alot about which direction to pursue as to engine/tranny control. My Fiero is an 86 2.8 auto. I want to stick with an auto trany so my options are:
1) 7730 ECM - ODB1 with support for the 440t4 ( 4t60 )
2) 9396 ECM - ODB1 with support for the 4t60e
3) 98 Venture ECM - ODB2 with support for the 4t60e
4) 99 Venture ECM - ODB2 with support for the 4t65e

I recently picked up a 90 Caddy 440t4 with a 2.97 ratio, so my direction will be the 7730 route. I have purchased a external crank trigger and the TB adapter from the WOT-Tech store. I already have a 4 cyl cradle, a spare V6 fiero harness, the 7730 ECM, and all related pigtails and connectors. I'll be picking up my LX9 with ~40K miles next week. If I'm not mistaken, I'll also need to acquire a TB from a 3100/3400 engine, as well as a fuel rail from the same engine. I believe the LX9 will come with a harness, but I'll have to get a starter and alternator. I need to know whether I can reuse the ac compressor from the 2.8 setup or not. This is my first swap so it will be a tremendous learning experience. I'm still not sure as to exhaust and issues revolving around wiring harness/programming requirements. I have a dialogue going with Ryan of Sinister Performance concerning programming, but want to weigh all my options. For the initial swap, I'll be keeping the LX9 stock. At a later date, I may want to switch to a 4t65e and ODB2 option.

Michael

[IsaacHayes]

You could also go with a LX5 TB and adapter. The LX5 is 65mm and will match the bore of the 3500 UIM perfectly. LX5 are the 3.5 DOHC motors in olds aurora and intrigues.

3100 TB is 52mm and 3400 TB is 56mm.

yes you need 3100/3400 fuel rails or convert to a returnless system and use the 3500 stuff.

Not sure about the AC stuff, but domesticcrew.com might have info on that, they have stuff regarding 3400 swaps into older vehicles in the FAQ.

[flimbob]

Alright, I obtained the 90-95 EGR to 2000+ Manifold Adapter and some lightly used Fieroaddiction 4t60 mounts. I have been contemplating the use of an 87-88 fiero 2.8 timing cover to remedy cutting the decklid because of the 3500 alternator mount position. The fiero timing cover would also allow me to re-use my fiero accessories( alternator, ac compressor, etc... ). It's looking like I may have to wait until I actually get the motor to determine whether to use the existing timing cover or not. I could use some extra info though. Looks like modifying the 3500 fuel delivery system to be the return type is more expensive than just acquiring a 3100/3400 fuel rail, injectors, and injector harness. Any input on this subject? Since I've already acquired the 3100/3400 TB adapter, I'll just stick with a 3100/3400 TB. Does it matter what year TB and fuel rail I should get? As far as the TB goes, I assume the 56mm is better. What year, make, and model were these used on? Appreciate all the help I can get.

[IsaacHayes]

I'd just go return style with 3100/3400 stuff. I'd try to get a LX5 TB and adapter to go to 65mm though in the future as the 52/56mm 3100/3400 TB's are small and will hold back power.

Fuel rails/lines vary by year in the routing, not sure which years would benefit you in your application more if any over the others. 3100 TB's are 52mm, 3400 ones are 56mm. 3500 uses 65mm drive by wire, and you can get a LX5 cable driven 65mm TB from a 3.5 DOHC oldsmobile motor and adapter. That's what I did on my 3500 plenum.

[flimbob]

Bought the motor today. It's a 2006 chevy uplander lx9 with 34k miles. Looked to have most of the accessories on it. It was raining cats and dogs, so I had them wait to deliver it until Wednesday. The place I bought it from said they would clean it up real nice before bringing it to me. Should have it on my engine stand by weeks end. Also went ahead and purchased the 88 fiero timing cover. Going to be like Christmas with all my goodies coming in the mail.

[bob442]

brackets and i think the timing cover will need to be changed. 3400 timing covers fit and i think 3100 99+ forsure will fit too

[Joseph Upson]

Alright, I obtained the 90-95 EGR to 2000+ Manifold Adapter and some lightly used Fieroaddiction 4t60 mounts. I have been contemplating the use of an 87-88 fiero 2.8 timing cover to remedy cutting the decklid because of the 3500 alternator mount position. The fiero timing cover would also allow me to re-use my fiero accessories( alternator, ac compressor, etc... ). It's looking like I may have to wait until I actually get the motor to determine whether to use the existing timing cover or not. I could use some extra info though. Looks like modifying the 3500 fuel delivery system to be the return type is more expensive than just acquiring a 3100/3400 fuel rail, injectors, and injector harness. Any input on this subject? Since I've already acquired the 3100/3400 TB adapter, I'll just stick with a 3100/3400 TB. Does it matter what year TB and fuel rail I should get? As far as the TB goes, I assume the 56mm is better. What year, make, and model were these used on? Appreciate all the help I can get.

I may have mentioned this to you before but an aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator with fittings is all you need to connect it to the stock rail. It has additional ports so that you can install a fuel pressure regulator on it also. Check with Summit or Jeg's. I paid just shy of $100 for a Mallory unit that has 1:1 ratio pressure change under boost. You might also benefit from the newer style injectors complimenting the engine better.

Interestingly this item does not come up in a general search on Summit's website, not sure why that is but I suspect if you call and talk to someone you may find they have other secrets that might prove less expensive.

Mallory 4305M

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-4305M/

[bob442]

i dont think you can use the timing cover, but i maybe wrong, how ever the timing cover doesnt have anythign to do with using the old A/C compressor, your best to go rob a 3400 at the wrecker for your needs. check some fiero forums to see what they did to fit there altinator. i think you might be able to use your old one from your 2.8 as it bolts to the head.

[flimbob]

Finally got the engine on the stand. So far I have only removed some mounts and the drive by wire TB. Looks like the exhaust manifolds connect and exit on the right hand side of the motor. I've read that it is possible to reuse the stock fiero catback system if using manifolds from a 3.1 turbo Grand Prix and fabrication of a crossover pipe. Anyone have any feedback on this or other exhaust methods? Cutting the trunk is not an option.

My 00+ Malibu fuel rail from Evil Bay arrived. It has Multec 2 injectors( 25322180 ) and the fuel regulator intact. Will start delving into updating the engine as soon as it gets a little warmer. I hate working in the cold.

[flimbob]

Removed the 3500 Plenum, fuel rail, and valve covers. Looks pretty clean. I need to swap valve covers so the oil spout is on the trunk side. While they're off, I'll paint them, along with the plenum. The Delphi injectors on the Malibu fuel rail are 19lbs. Do I need to use different injectors, such as 24lbers?

[IsaacHayes]

Yeah, you'll need larger. Not sure exactly what would be best, but 19#i s probably too small. Anyone recall what 3500 stock ones are?

[flimbob]

If I have to get different fuel injectors, I may look into the adjustable FPR/returnless mod Joseph Upson spoke of.

[Joseph Upson]

Stock 3500 injectors are about 24 lb/hr from what I can remember the first time I looked them up. That's correct, at 380 Kpa (55 psi). Not sure if flex fuel injectors are the same in the event that was offered with the Uplander on the 3500. It's possible there's enough reserve so that a change in the stock code is all that was necessary at the factory to make up for the difference in that case although I believe they are still different in that circumstance.

[IsaacHayes]

Why go to returnless? Swapping injectors are easy. :P

[flimbob]

I have a 16lb set which is in my 2.8L, I have a 19lb set that came with the 3100 fuel rail. I also have a set that came with the 3500. I am under severe cost constraints and can not afford to purchase a set of 24lb injectors to use with the 3100 fuel rail. I need a solution that is around $50. I believe I can get a suitable adjustable FPR for around that price. Joseph Upson has already proven a modified returnless system can be done. I have also talked with a very knowledgable person from the 3800SC camp that has converted returnless systems on a regular basis with no drawbacks whatsoever. It also allows me to use the stock components from the 3500 that I already have in my possession.