1999 OLDS ALERO 3500 swap

[nixtux]

The old lady ran today. Some random issues. The alternator isn't charging and the A/C isn't working after getting recharged (not that it's important but notable since it
might be related to the alternator not charging.) The other thing was the starter had to get replaced because it wasn't able to turn it over. The starter seemed fine
before but it looked real rough. I'm really hoping the alternator is just a bad ground or something stupid but if it's just the alternator, well so be it. Battery wise, it's a new
optima 1000 or so CCA so I'm guessing that's not the issue. That battery is awesome. So far, possibly the best investment for the car.

Really hoping to take her for a cruise tomorrow, but random little things make it slow I guess. The idles a bit rough too so it'll need some adjusting for the timing, but at
least it turns over. I just hope it moves...

[nixtux]

took it for a 15 mile drive. Seems to run a little hot. on the HW it runs around 199 while in town it runs around 210-225.
I haven't had a car in the summer nor a way to read exact numbers but my friends truck stays around 198-207F and so
did the cobolt I rented. I'm just wondering if anyone has an idea on that or experienced the same without issue.

The idle is a bit rough still. The mirrors shake a little and also when I shift in and out of gear it goes in and out a little rough
and causes the engine to go down to about 500RPMS from the normal 650-700 range. Just wondering if that's normal
with the inserts or just a transmission that has been out of commission for a while.

I attached the guage on the VCM.

[nixtux]

So she killed on me at 65MPH. I'm hoping no real damage was done. It seems like the crankshaft key came off or something to that affect.

Power wise, I only got on it once, but you know it's not a 3.4l.

[nixtux]

It'll be pulled into the shop tomorrow sometime and I guess we'll find out if any damage was done.

I was driving at about 3k just about to hit 65MPH when it dropped to 2k. I thought the transmission had a issue at first. I couldn't get into the right lane to pull over
and traffic was light on the left side so started crossing the intersection and noticed the power steering didn't work and that the RPM's were at 0.
Tried to restart, the exact same sound as a broken timing chain on a old 3.8. Figured that was the case. The valves move when you turn it over it's just not
getting compression. The guy at the shop thinks something happened with the crank key, but what I'm not sure about is whether any damage was done.
He made it sound like these engines don't normally let the valves slap the pistons when there is a timing chain failure. Not sure why the key came off either.
I wasn't hard on it at all. I took it up to about 4.5-5k twice in about 15 miles. Have to work it a little.... If anyone has any thoughts I'd like to read them because
I'm at a loss as far as possible issues and whatnot. All I know is I need to get the car on the damn road because not having one blows.

Thanks

[CNCguy]

Hope I'm wrong but sounds like a sheared cam drive pin. If the cam gets out of time, the valves will hit the pistons.

[nixtux]

Hope I'm wrong but sounds like a sheared cam drive pin. If the cam gets out of time, the valves will hit the pistons.

With the way my luck is I'm going to wager you are correct. Would the cam, springs, and pushrods be salvagable? I can take the bad but some
good would be welcomed too. I'm still going to hope you are wrong because this project cleaned me out, so I'll be screwed it the motor is
shot. I'm assuming there is a lot of damage if they hit, but I don't really know what it'll take to fix. I assume it'll take a new 3.5 and the
stuff done to this one will have to be swapped over (less the cam, springs, and pushrods.) Not going to go through all that again at least not
right now. I can't afford it.

I don't mean to ask a newb question but I'm not a mechanic. What causes the cam to get out of timing? Everything was lined up and it idled good.
It was a little rough but that's to be expected. The guy at the shop thought it'd be a lopey idle from the specs. The side-mirrors did a shake a little.
I was a bit thrown off because the car killed when I went from reverse to drive (backing out of my driveway.) The transmission would go into gear a
little rough and it'd drop the idle down to 400. I didn't think much of it killing, hopefully that wasn't a sign I missed. Live and learn maybe.

[CNCguy]

My comment was based on you saying that it sounded like the 3.8 with the broken timing chain. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Do a compression check first. If you have good compression, the trouble is elsewhere.

[bszopi]

The valves move when you turn it over it's just not
getting compression.

My comment was based on you saying that it sounded like the 3.8 with the broken timing chain. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Do a compression check first. If you have good compression, the trouble is elsewhere.

Looks like the trouble might be elsewhere.

[nixtux]

My comment was based on you saying that it sounded like the 3.8 with the broken timing chain. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Do a compression check first. If you have good compression, the trouble is elsewhere.

I probably should have been more descriptive. There isn't any compression, but the valves move.
A older 3.8 from a 86' Olds. It sounds kind of like it, it just whines. I didn't hear any banging, clanks
or clacks when it died on the highway. But the AC doesn't work either so I did have the window down
a little. A little difficult to make out noises from other cars and trucks.

I'm hoping the guy gets around to playing with it today. I'd really hate to be stressing over this all
weekend. Theorizing probably isn't helping but it gives me something to do and ideas which makes
things a little less stressful I guess. I just hope it runs again soon and if not, hopefully get a new
3.5l and just have it swapped straight in in a timely fashion. It'd be a shame to lose the extra power
but not having a car is lamer than losing that extra power.

[nixtux]

Looks like the trouble might be elsewhere.

Ran to the shop today but the car wasn't pulled in. Had a chance to discuss it briefly.
The core motor and old motor were available and did some looking around.

When the cam was installed the 3500 bolt was used instead of the heavier duty bolt
on the 3400. The timing set was from the pre-99. I'm not wondering if a the smaller
bolt (the 3500) being used caused something to get fscked. The kicker being, if it is
that bolt, what damage will I have to plan around.

Lets say it was actually the crank key, would the crank still spin? And I didn't test the
compresison, it didn't sound like there was any. A suttle whine from the valvetrain.

Thanks!

[CNCguy]

In almost 40 years of working around cars I have never seen a crank key shear. My money is on the cam bolt and alignment pin. Personally, I haven't seen a difference in the number of failures due to one bolt or the other. It always seems to come back to whether the bolt was torqued properly.

If it was the bolt and pin, you can expect bent pushrods and valves. You will also need to get the broken piece of pin out of the cam to reuse it. If the problem was the bolt and pin, be sure to check back and I will give you some tips on saving the cam and avoiding a repeat.

[nixtux]

In almost 40 years of working around cars I have never seen a crank key shear. My money is on the cam bolt and alignment pin. Personally, I haven't seen a difference in the number of failures due to one bolt or the other. It always seems to come back to whether the bolt was torqued properly.

If it was the bolt and pin, you can expect bent pushrods and valves. You will also need to get the broken piece of pin out of the cam to reuse it. If the problem was the bolt and pin, be sure to check back and I will give you some tips on saving the cam and avoiding a repeat.

Most of what you say is what I'm expecting. It's pretty lame but that's the way it is. I didn't do any of the work except cleaning parts.
I'm still hopeful that it is fixable without anything too major, but I don't see that. I just hope I find out tomorrow what the damage is
because not knowning is stressful. I can except whatever the end is I just want to know.

The work was done so swapping a 3500 in should be fairly easy. Everything is wired and everything did work. Then fix the engine and
at a later time swap it back in if possible. I will not be happy if the cam is bad from this. The cam and pushrods was nearly 500 so it's
not a cheap investment.

If the valves are bad does that mean the pistons will be bad as well?? If that is the case I will probably need to get a new engine?
Having to replace those and break in would just add another point of failure I'd like to avoid. The only reason I didn't want to do the cam
in the first place was because I had this bad feeling about redoing the timing chain.

I don't mean to ask stupid questions but I'm just trying to figure everything out. My salary is half what it was last year because the cost
to run my business has nearly doubled. It sucks but at least it pays the bills.

In any event, this project has cost around $6-7,000 to date. Everything was replaced under the hood. The car has 226,000 on it and my
goal is to replace everything, fix everything, and just have a nice car that won't leave me on the side of the road. Get past this hump and
carry on.

I'd regret having to go without the new cam because it had some snort and I didn't even give her all. It was very impressive. Then again
I was happy with the 3400 that was in it. I'm easy to please.

[nixtux]

In almost 40 years of working around cars I have never seen a crank key shear. My money is on the cam bolt and alignment pin. Personally, I haven't seen a difference in the number of failures due to one bolt or the other. It always seems to come back to whether the bolt was torqued properly.

If it was the bolt and pin, you can expect bent pushrods and valves. You will also need to get the broken piece of pin out of the cam to reuse it. If the problem was the bolt and pin, be sure to check back and I will give you some tips on saving the cam and avoiding a repeat.

All the exhaust valves hit the pistons while the intake didn't. We triple check that the pushrods were installed exhaust being the longer and
intake shorter.

The pushrods don't look bent at all. The spark plugs were perfect. Just stuck valves on all the exhaust. The intake didn't hit and
looked fine.

[CNCguy]

Sounds like it only slipped a small amount compared to what usually happens. Most likely since the RPMs were low. I am sure that Ben can hook you up with some valves. Be sure to check the pushrods by rolling them on a very flat surface like a piece of glass. I would replace any with even the slightest bow.

Getting the broken pin out can be difficult. Usually when the pin shears it makes the hole egg shaped and doesn't support the pin properly. You run a high risk of a repeat if you don't repair the hole. Luckily, the journal with the hole for the pin is soft and can be drilled and reamed. You can open the hole up to a larger size and use a stepped pin or the cam and gear can be opened up to use a larger straight pin. We had a customer who used two pins 180 degrees apart.

[nixtux]

Sounds like it only slipped a small amount compared to what usually happens. Most likely since the RPMs were low. I am sure that Ben can hook you up with some valves. Be sure to check the pushrods by rolling them on a very flat surface like a piece of glass. I would replace any with even the slightest bow.

Getting the broken pin out can be difficult. Usually when the pin shears it makes the hole egg shaped and doesn't support the pin properly. You run a high risk of a repeat if you don't repair the hole. Luckily, the journal with the hole for the pin is soft and can be drilled and reamed. You can open the hole up to a larger size and use a stepped pin or the cam and gear can be opened up to use a larger straight pin. We had a customer who used two pins 180 degrees apart.

I'm at a loss as to why the drive pin would have slipped in the first place. Eitherway, the car will be
at the shop for at lesat another two weeks so I'm out another two weeks on top of the already SIX weeks.
Another 2-3 weeks and another 3,000... yah.