95 3.4dohc (MAF) into a 93 3.1 (MAP), i have the ECM/wiring

[GPXSS]

ok i got this:




and i want to put it here:


I have basically everything from the 95.. engine, trans, cradle(its bad.. cant use), suspension, steering, ALL wiring to the firewall, cruise module, airbox w/ maf, ECM, all accessories, mounts, downpipe, yadda..

Id like to just swap everything onto my cradle and go.. but I think there is some wiring to be done at the firewall which is where i need help. I also don't have all the coolant hoses needed, so i need to swap from the 3.1 hose setup to fit this.

any ideas where to start?

[dohcfiend]

don't know much about 3.1's, but in theory there should be alot of similiarities. but motors are obd1 so the diagnostic port should be in the same configuration, but don't hold me to it. i say get a manual for this and study the wiring diagrams. u would only need 1 chiltons/hayes manual since your car came with bot engines.

as far as the map/maf thing goes, u have a complete engine harness right? i am sure some1 along the way has done this swap already. try to track them down and get some info. that's all i can tell ya. good luck.

[patgizz]

which year are you putting it into? looks like 91-93 from the picture.

you definitely need the 2 3.4 heater hose assemblies(the huge coolant pipe and the short one). the 3.1 coolant pipe that runs along the firewall and up to the water pump will rub on your alternator pulley and there isnt enough room to move it back and make it work. that or cut it off up high and run a new flexible rubber hose from the cut to the water pump by route of going behind the coolant reservoir.

you shouldnt need to rewire anything really, just take the 95's harness and plug into the firewall, that is the only plug and only thing keeping it from coming out as a whole unit, its a t25 or so torx. the fuel lines worked fine as well.

that's what i can remember from doing my 3.1-3.4 swap 2 years ago.

[GPXSS]

Yeah this is going into a 93. Do you have any pictures of your swap during the process?

Hit me up on AIM GPXSS if you are on, or MSN gpxss@aol.com

[patgizz]

me = stupid. i just saw the title. i'll be on tonight i will AIM you if you are on and you can question away(i popped in to look up some parts). there is no wiring difference just plug and play. all the differences for the map/maf and the addition crank sensor and cam sensor are in the engine harness wiring. axles and all are the same. unfortunately most of my pics i had uploaded to the old gmf server in my swap post, and all that is gone, and since i've gotten a new computer i dont have all of them anymore.

[GPXSS]

Update on this, got the good cradle out from under the GP, now its time to start swapping parts over.



Also noticed the rotors on these 95 hub/strut assemblies are larger than what are on the 93 stuff? I thought they didnt get bigger brakes till 96?

[patgizz]

bigger brakes in 94 for all but lumina i believe. lookin good. bigger brakes = good, swap those on too if you have time or all the parts.

[GPXSS]

Update to this.. started another thread with pictures of the engine cradle, but i figure ill keep it all in this thread for anybody wanting to do it later

http://www.60degreev6.com/GPXSS/34dohc/subframe01.jpg

Got the steering rack installed on the new cradle, pulled the engine off the busted up cradle... all mounts were destroyed in the wreck.

P/N's for my use:

Subframe bushings 91-93
14088025 ~$4 each
14088026
14088027
14088028

Control arms, since bushings dont come seperate 91-96
10114665 $107.. find alternative
10114666

Engine / Trans mounts 94-96
10185127 $30 rear trans/engine mount
22146013 $52.42 front engine mount
22188128 $52 trans mount
10223927 factory dogbone $14.55

Energy Suspension P/N's
95160G
95167G

Cam cog stuff
10127521 bolt
10162073 lock ring

Misc
10252633 heater pipe, plenum outlet - buy
10192770 heater pipe, to firewall using above
10236219 dryer insulator
10228016 dryer bracket
10227346 fuseblk holder/shield
10226073 ECM bracket
22144532 94-96 washer bottle

Things to buy:
Battery
Plug wires
Radiator.. maybe
lower radiator hose

[Mitch DOHC]

bigger back brakes for all.. my 94 cutlass still has small front brakes

[Rhedalert]

The front brakes enlarged in mid-'95, not 94...

[brian89gp]

http://www.brian89gp.com/wiring.htm

Can't remember if I sent you that link already. The 88-93 has most of the interior grounded through the engine harness to the transaxel stud, the 94-96 has the interior grounded in the interior. Also trace back the 3 or 4 (i forget) IGN fuse wires on both harnesses. For some reason I was thinking that they are arranged differently, ie a wire on the 91 is 30A while on the 94 is a 60A or vice versa

If possible and if it would fit, I would try using the 3.4 radiator as it is considerably larger.

[patgizz]

brian, my 94 3.1 radiator was the same size as the one from my 3.4 donor car(and much larger than my mom and sister's 91 3.1 cars). think they upgraded the 3.1 cars in later years?

[GPXSS]

Most of the wiring seems fine, though there are a few things diff.

Cruise stuff on 91-93 is routed through a C202/208 connector on the drivers side.. this 95 harness had it @ the C100 connector. I'll have to pull the wires off the C100 connector and move over to the C202/208 (208 probably.. i think 202 is under the steering column.
D2 wht cruise brake switch
G1 brn cruise cutoff, splice to above, add in a ground for chime module to C100 connector
H1 gry/blk cruise resume, add in +12 for fused acc feed in C100 connector
H2 dk blu cruise set switch
H5 gry cruise on/off


J1 in-car is the ALDL serial.. 95 harness its a blue 2ndgear start switch. Ill have to re-route for the aldl.. dont have the 2nd gear start switch

L2 on new harness is yellow P/N feed to theft module, Im thinking i should move this to B3.. in-car side its also a yellow start feed to trans pos switch.. on the harness B3 is a purple theft relay output to PCM.

Also have a few Electronic Variable Orifice feeds, not sure what they are or what they do.

C2 is orng/blk P/N signal as well. its not in the C100 connector on the 93, it goes straight from the Trans Pos switch to the ECM, also feeds the auto door lock switch. Not sure why it needs to go into the car, have to figure that one out.

Usefull info:
93 wiring:
Interior (lamp switch, cig lighter, cluster, radio, huddim) grounds through C211, to splice S125 then through grommet P103 (drivers side near steering column) finally to ground point G119 next to battery tray.

Other major int grounds through C200 (under pass dash, major junction) to G222 whos location is not listed in the book (8A-14-6)

[GPXSS]

Update to this, been awhile but much progress has been made.

The engine is in, all supension and brake stuff is in, any and all hoses have been replaced with 3.4 variants (new from GM), all new balljoints and bushings, rebuilt calipers..

Kept the 93 radiator.. 94-up radiator wouldnt fit because the sheet metal is different, so I sold the 97 GTP NIB Delco radiator I had bought to swap in. (94-2000 and up radiators are the same dimensions and mounting but some are thicker than others) I originally wanted to use the 94+ radiator so that I could use the stock 95 airbox.. the drivers side radiator hose gets in the way on the 93 style radiator.

Biggest thing right now is wiring. Plugging a 94+ ECM and engine wiring into a 93 and prior firewall is NOT plug and play.

Things to note:
94+ Cruise wiring was moved to the C100 connector. (large connector on passenger side using torx bit)
Im 95% sure that 93 and prior cruise systems ran independent of the ECM, I simply removed the cruise pins from the C100.

VATS systems greatly complicated the starter feed signal. 93 systems basically have 1 wire (B3 yellow) that feeds the Trans position switch when you start the car. As long as the transmission is in Park or Neutral, it allows this signal to hit the Starter solonoid and the engine spins over. 94+ systems implemented Theft Deterrent modules. Now you have 3 wires (L2 yellow, L3 purple, B3 purple) to deal with, which runs a relay inside the car instead of powering the solonoid directly. Since the trans position switch only now runs a relay, GM used thinner wire and this will not support the current to run the solonoid... you must either re-wire using heavy gauge wire, or you can add a relay in the engine compartment to act as the theft deterrent system relay. Happy enough, GM left an open spot for a relay in the 94+ U/H elec center. Factory wiring for all! I also have to get a VATS bypass module which sends a PWM signal to the ECM, since I dont have the VATS system inside the car.

Ignition cylinders for whatever reason have shitloads of current going through them.. they utilize 3 heavy gauge feeds (60amp) and pass this on to different systems depending on if the lock cylinder is in Accy, Run, bulbtest, or Start. All 3 of these feeds in 93 were fed by large fuses in the Right side Elec center under the hood. In 94, Gm decided to move 2 of them to the LEFT side elec center, and pass through the C202 connector. What this means for me is that the L3 line needs to have a 60amp feed line in place of the 95 harness's purple trans pos switch line.

There are a few other odds n ends, which are all contained in this spreadsheet

Anywhoo, it is possible to swap 94+ wiring and engines into older Wbodies, but there is a bit of work involved.

[GPXSS]

Its alive.... ALIVE!!!

well, for 2 seconds anyway.. until I get the VATS bypass module in. I should be driving the thing around tomorrow afternoon.

Its kinda loud with no downpipe gotta lenghten it for some reason, the 3.1 catback is shorter length than the 3.4 catback.