FWD vs RWD

[ForcedFirebird]

why does the timing cover have to be changed? cant you use a fwd timing cover and accesories in a rwd application? the only problem i see is you would have to make some custom brackets to mount the power steering cause the throttle body would hit it when you flip the UIM around.

True, but usually when you swap a motor into a vehicle, it's easier to use what came in it. Most used motors don't come with the accys.

[Mr_Efficiency]

makes sence, but since i already have the fwd accesories with the motor there is no problems using them, correct?

The only thing im worried about is getting the starter holes in the right spot, I was looking at it today and it looks like the starter sits flush with the edge of the block so placement of it before driling holes shouldnt be to bad... I'll have a better idea when i get the flywheel on and have another look.

I'm only missing one boss for one of 4 that hold the motor mount, but i havent really had a good look at the rwd mounts either, anyone have any pics? just to give me an idea what im dealing with.

oil pan is cake, im a welder, lol

[ForcedFirebird]

makes sence, but since i already have the fwd accesories with the motor there is no problems using them, correct?

The only thing im worried about is getting the starter holes in the right spot, I was looking at it today and it looks like the starter sits flush with the edge of the block so placement of it before driling holes shouldnt be to bad... I'll have a better idea when i get the flywheel on and have another look.

I'm only missing one boss for one of 4 that hold the motor mount, but i havent really had a good look at the rwd mounts either, anyone have any pics? just to give me an idea what im dealing with.

oil pan is cake, im a welder, lol

Let me know how it goes drilling the starter hloes for tapping, I didn't think there was enough meat there to support it. It was suggested to me to leave the starter where it is and modify the bell housing instead - in which case a remote oil filter would be needed.

Here's pics of the RWD mounts. The "pass" side of the FWD block may have 3 bosses, but they aren't in the same location.

I'm excited to see someone thry this since it is in my future plans

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t87/forcedfirebird/Hybrid%20Build/?action=view&current=100_3963.jpg

[Mr_Efficiency]

thanks for the input. I'm looking for more of a pic of the surface of the mount that bolts to the block... but I'll see it when i get that far. I have already seen that picture you posted, I have been scaning through your hybrid build pics trying to compare the diffrences in blocks.
I'll just weld the holes closed on the stock mount and then make new holes, not hard.

I'll let you know how the starter turns out, but it wont be for a few weeks. Its going into a 89 s10, currently the truck has a 2.5 in it. I pick up the truck next week and I'll have the motor mocked up pretty quick.
First i have a few cars to get rid of to make room, have a few trips to the wreckers planed this week

[Scott_68B]

The RWD timing cover works fine with the FWD oil pan, you just need to fill in the extra water passage that goes to the outside of the block on a FWD. The bottoms of both covers have the same radii and interchange.

Is this only for a Gen 3 block? I'm using a Gen 2 block and a RWD timing cover and haven't noticed any issues at all...it appears to be a direct bolt on.

Thanks!

-- Scott

[ForcedFirebird]

Is this only for a Gen 3 block? I'm using a Gen 2 block and a RWD timing cover and haven't noticed any issues at all...it appears to be a direct bolt on.

Thanks!

-- Scott

Hmm, you could be right. I know the Gen2 shares a lot more traits with the Gen1 than the Gen3.

[Mr_Efficiency]

I got the motor on the stand today to have a look at the new home for my starter and there is no way you can put a starter there. First off you need a rwd starter cause the solenoid is on the wrong side and hits the block.
Even with the rwd starter its not that there isnt enough meat to support a starter, the problem is that there is nothing at all. you could get one bolt in closest to the block but the block ends before the next starter bolt hole. I'm sure you could rig up something to make it work but i dont want to mickey mouse this thing together.
Anyone know if the starter for the 2.5 in the s10 is on the driver side? if thats the case then thats the bellhousing to use, cause its the same tranny otherwise.

I'll be able to find out more when i get the truck here and start tearing into it. also it has a 2.5 so if nobody answers my question by then I'll let you know.

Edit, I'm using a gen 2 block btw

[ForcedFirebird]

I got the motor on the stand today to have a look at the new home for my starter and there is no way you can put a starter there. First off you need a rwd starter cause the solenoid is on the wrong side and hits the block.
Even with the rwd starter its not that there isnt enough meat to support a starter, the problem is that there is nothing at all. you could get one bolt in closest to the block but the block ends before the next starter bolt hole. I'm sure you could rig up something to make it work but i dont want to mickey mouse this thing together.
Anyone know if the starter for the 2.5 in the s10 is on the driver side? if thats the case then thats the bellhousing to use, cause its the same tranny otherwise.

I'll be able to find out more when i get the truck here and start tearing into it. also it has a 2.5 so if nobody answers my question by then I'll let you know.

Edit, I'm using a gen 2 block btw

Told you

If you are ambitious enough, you can make a 1" plate to go between the engine and tranny and mount your starter to that. I know that works because the 327ci Fiero has been like that for years to get the starter on the correct side of the engine.

If you have room, you might be able to slip the starter in on the pass side, and use a remote oil filter mount. It's going to be close on the Fbodies, might want to check it out in the Struck.

I'll be going over this hurdle soon enough, wish I had time to work on my own projects more

[Mr_Efficiency]

... You lost me here. I am trying to put the starter on the passenger side, and the oil filter is on the driver side so its not in the way at all.

I love the plate idea between the motor and trans, that would definatly work with a quad 4 starter cause of the way it bolts up (bolts run parralell to the starter itself) except the starter would be upside down but I see no reason why it wouldnt work that way.

[ForcedFirebird]

... You lost me here. I am trying to put the starter on the passenger side, and the oil filter is on the driver side so its not in the way at all.

What's confusing? The oil filter adapter on a RWD occupies the same space as a FWD starter. The FWD oil filter adapter occupies the same space as a RWD motor mount. You can't have them all

Yes, the plate works excellent, but it might change the fact that stock drivers' side RWD mounts work on a FWD block. *But* since the other mount needs to be custom anyways, with the ability to fabricate makes it only slightly longer than making one mount.

[Superdave]

what's stopping you guys from just modifying the tranny bellhousing to allow the FWD starter to work?

It's just aluminium.. cut it out clean and either drill/tap holes for a sheetmetal cover or have some sheet aluminium TIG'd to the bellhousing. If it's a 5 speed just find the T5 Isuzu or whatever bellhousing and use that.

[Mr_Efficiency]

Actually thats a good point, an overlooked obvious one, lol

From what ive seen with fwd stuff and I've seen a lot of it, every GM tranny has the exact same bellhousing with the exception of the starter. but i saw one guy notch the tranny and stick the starter on and it worked great just looked ugly as hell but i'm sure it could be done nice.
Also he had a random extra hole for a starter with nothing in it but you could trim it off and make a nice cover.
thanks Superdave, for not overthinking it like i was, lol

Also i believe mine is the T-5, either way its a 5 speed so this would be cake.
Now i just have one motor mount to worry about.

Actually what about clutch and flywheel package? I would use the fwd flywheel but i'd need a rwd clutch correct? I'm asuming the input shaft splines are diffrent (borg warner vs getrag) so as long as the clutch disc is the same diameter im home free.

Edit: missed forced firebirds post up there

What's confusing? The oil filter adapter on a RWD occupies the same space as a FWD starter. The FWD oil filter adapter occupies the same space as a RWD motor mount. You can't have them all

Currently the starter is on the same side as the oil filter and it clears fine, so your saying I'm going to run into issues with the oil filter hiting the rwd motor mount.
I've only seen pics of rwd blocks but the oil filter looks to be in the same place. Also I have an adapter that points the oil filter strait down, would that be enough to clear the motor mount?

I'll have to take a second look at the pics. I cant wait to get all my stuff in one spot and start taking it apart so i can compare in person, lol

Edit2: ok i see what you mean now, i think im ok. My oil filter adapter looks the same as a rwd one only it points strait down so it is out of the way of the mount and still clears the starter. This motor came out of a corsica but i have seen this adapter on a few other fwd cars, my grand prix just had the filter on the block.

[Mr_Efficiency]

Here is the pic of it, the guy put a Quad 4 in his isuzu storm and kept the storm tranny. The storm is susposed to have the starter at the back above the diff. This is the front of the motor.


notice tho that the quad 4 bolts are paralell to the starter and the starter has a place in the block that it fits in. This would be even easier on the 60* v6 cause the starter is at the bottom of the motor so there is less material to deal with.

[Mr_Efficiency]

can a mod delete this post, thanks