help me transplant a 3500 V6 into a 93 beretta...

[bjs96beretta]

i was wondering what all is involved in the swap i cant find anything for it!!! i tried to search the 3500 engine build, BUT i cant find it. heres my concerns and what i think will hold me back on this swap..

1. motor mounts...what do i use? i have a 93 base right now. 2.2L 4 cylinder is currently my DD car.
2. electronics of what i need? ecm? do i just pull it off the malibu that i get the engine out of? its a 2005 chevy malibu i think...? OBDI computer out of the stock 4 cylinder. also i have a spare OBDII harness in my other car that will work as well. just need to know which one is good. i was thinking of just getting a chip for it when its all said and done but im not sure now...

3. fuel system and fuel lines???....oh boy this will be fun...

well i think this might be it for now. this will be a tough cookie to eat. i do have access to my brothers shop, but hes a do it yourself mechanic. i do go to a shop class at school, and i do think we have a press, and so other helpful things that i can use. this will be my first engine build and swap so im trying to research all i can on the swap so it will be easy to do...well i hope. LOL do you happen to know anyone else that might be able to help. i know JON knows everything on 3400 swap, electronics, etc i need some major help on this. i really want to do this swap.i have the money to do it as well. so money is no option here. im going to be pulling the motor out if i can get everything reseached and done in time before it starts to get cold out side... i really want to build it up before i put it in as well. so im going to see if it needs to be bored. and then im going to add forged pistons, rods, new bearings, freeze plugs,etc for it....

thanks for your time

Brandon

[85_Olds_Ciera]

i was wondering what all is involved in the swap

My advice...look real close at 93 Beretta's engine compartment, which has 3.1 motor. And for motor mounts...try the Bone Yard...if they are the same as 3400 mounting points.

I know on 88 Beretta, they changed one or two items to make it fit into engine compartment. I think the water pump is mounted different...I haven't been around these 60 degree motors until recently...so look and compare...

[bszopi]

Look at the swap write-up on www.domesticcrew.com as most of it will apply to a 93 Beretta. The lower front motor mount comes to mind as the biggest thing needing to be addressed.

[PCGUY112887]

Wow... this will be one heck of a job to do.

If you plan tearing the engine totally apart for pistons and such, why even start with a 3500? Any 3500 you find is probably going to be fairly new and in great condition. No point in tearing that apart, just wasting money (unless you have that much cash to burn!).

Regardless, you can keep the OBD1 system however you will need a way to tune it, the engine is way too different. Superdave may be able to help you there.

There is a ton of info in my thread here...

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=36647

Granted that's going into an OBD-II Grand prix, you will still have some of the same issues such as motor mounts and exhaust manifold issues and such.

[bjs96beretta]

Look at the swap write-up on www.domesticcrew.com as most of it will apply to a 93 Beretta. The lower front motor mount comes to mind as the biggest thing needing to be addressed.

thanks i figured the motor mounts would be the hardest of the swap...

Brandon

[bjs96beretta]

Wow... this will be one heck of a job to do.

If you plan tearing the engine totally apart for pistons and such, why even start with a 3500? Any 3500 you find is probably going to be fairly new and in great condition. No point in tearing that apart, just wasting money (unless you have that much cash to burn!).

Regardless, you can keep the OBD1 system however you will need a way to tune it, the engine is way too different. Superdave may be able to help you there.

There is a ton of info in my thread here...

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=36647

Granted that's going into an OBD-II Grand prix, you will still have some of the same issues such as motor mounts and exhaust manifold issues and such.

hehe thats what everyone is saying...well since i have the motor out i might as well put forged pistons/rods, and such in it already.( i dont want to tear it down again and take the motor out twice. this will be a turbo motor in the future or if i can get more money now then i will be able to buy the turbo and what not now) on the exhaust issue i will see about a custom made downpipe for it. ive looked through your thread and have found some helpful hints and such. i will look through it again and take some more notes...oh and on the tune i will be getting one from a guy on bstuff.com or i might just get a custom burnt one when i go to dyno it or something...

thansk in advance

Brandon

[RedBird]

swapping from a 2.2 to a 3.1 is enough work, especially for someone who hasn't done any swaps before, i wouldn't recommend anyone with no experience to do a 3400 swap straight from a 2.2, let ALONE a 3500.... it's going to be a lot more work than you might think.

BUT, since you seem pretty set on it:

Motor mounts: Just regular V6 mounts work fine, with a few exceptions. i dunno about autos, but on 5 speeds, you'll ned to elongate the bolt holes in the carrier bearing, on the backside of the motor, and on the front side, the custom front bracket is different from regular 3x00's, so you'll need to custom make that.(BTW the above is true for J-body's until 94 and L-bodies until 91 or 92 i think, i dont remember what year the mounts changed on L's)

Fuel: You'll need to swap out the 3500 fuel rail and injectors for a 3x00 rail and the injectors of your choice. The 3500 rail is returnless, and the injectors are too short to use with a 3x00 rail, IIRC. Then you can use the fuel lines from a 3100 L-body. You'll need tuning done for whichever injectors you go with.

Ignition: You'll also go with 3x00 style ign. system. I dont know if all or just some 3500's have the different style system, but from what i've seen, it would be a chore to hook it up, the connectors and such look completely different. You'll also DEFINATELY FOR SURE need the external trigger setup from the Store here. wont run without it.

You'll also need to either go with a large port 3x00 plenum/TB, or buy the TB adapter and a TB adapter form the store here, since the 3500's is electronically controlled.

You'll need to find a clutch that'll hold the power. plenty of options(that's if you're going with a 5 speed, which i would)

If you tear it apart, you'll need to buy replacement gaskets from GM, which is $$$, b/c IIRC no aftermarket companies make gaskets for the 3500 yet.

Tuning, Tuning, Tuning



I'm pretty sure that's most of the 3500-specific stuff. Add in on top of that, all the stuff to go from a 2.2 to a 3.1, then all the 3x00 swap stuff. I'm somewhere around 1500 into my swap, and it's running and driving, but that's starting with a 3.1, and only going to a 3400.

Have Fun

[Superdave]

looks like Damon pretty much covered it all.


If i were you, i'd take smaller steps.. first off, find a 3100 Beretta parts car and either swap in that engine or a newer 3100/3400. You'll have the propper 3x00 mounts that way.


the 3500 swap is only running in 1 Beretta, and it was an auto 3.1 before. there are 4 running 3500 cavaliers and 2 or 3 more in the process so we're still working out the kinks.


I'm inching towards the $4,000 mark with my build/swap and it's still running on the stock bottom end, stuff ads up quick so expect to fork out some cash no matter what you do.

[RedBird]

Did i get it all? DAMN i'm good. i guess it paid off listening to you bitch about installing it for 2 months lmao......

[Superdave]

Did i get it all? DAMN i'm good. i guess it paid off listening to you bitch about installing it for 2 months lmao......

Good job.... you get a cookie.


There are a few advantages to the Beretta, one being the lower engine mount. If it's the newer style i don't believe he's gotta clearance anything for the TCE external trigger.


his Isuzu 5 speed won't hold up to the 3500, he'll need to find a Getrag or NVG to swap in.

[bjs96beretta]

thanks superdave...and yes i will be using a 5 speed for this. a getrag i hope. i really don't want to do the 3100 swap or even the 3400 swap i really am dead set on the 3500 5 speed swap. im sure i will run into problems but i will figure them out...


Brandon