3900 swap into Fiero

[Joseph Upson]

How are you doing with Moats? I always had good dealings with him. Seems unusual not to receive any support. When I 1st got my AutoProm USB I had all kinds of issues, all my fault but got plenty of help. I'm gonna blame my problems on a crappy users guide, LOL.

Initially the reponse time was really good however, I wasn't near the car when I received the unit and was mainly working on connecting up to the emulator with the laptop while away from home. When I did get home to try to link up with the vehicle is where things stopped going as well.

First I agree fully the little sheet of "destructions" was the catalyst for some of the problems I ran into along with a lack of ideas of what the problems could have been keeping me from connecting to the ecm with the TGP code. For example, there should be info on exactly which vehicles the unit services that need the 10 ohm switch closed or opened and a detailed step by step process on how to setup the unit properly with the computer particularly insuring that the driver has been installed properly aside from what Win XP says. Datamaster included instructions like that and it ended up helping me finally link up to the ecm although months later.

The Beretta code worked fine. You know how much the unit costs, so hopefully you can understand my frustration when it didn't work for the very purpose behind my purchasing it. I didn't slam the product or the manufacturer but I made it known I wasn't happy, after that I never received another response from Moates or Mark (Tunerpro) although part of what made me fire off a few rounds was the lack of response when I needed it from them most.

If more time were put into the instructions a lot of time and frustration could be averted. I feel like I know more about how to get the emulator to work with the vehicle than Moates does now. I still haven't been successful with emulating and datalogging at the same time using the 8F code which the instructions state you can do. It works with the Beretta A1 code but hey, it datalogs now so I'll take that.

There was no mention of firmware for the APU in the instructions if I recall correctly which makes no sense given how important it is. I stumbled across it on the site and immediately it restored part of the system functions like verifying a properly loaded bin file. It's okay though, I've learned to expect less and less in exhchange for my cash now.

[JohnnyReb]

I went from a commodore programmer that was probably 10 yrs old to a AutoProm. From pulling and programing for every change, basically guessing to real time emulation was worth the aggrevation. I have had mine for probably 3 yrs and still find myself on the Moats msg board trying to figure things out for diffrent ecm's. I guess if it was easy everyone would be doing it. One thing that did help me was buying a old slow laptop and dedicating it to the AutoProm. $60.00 for a eBay Compaq and I just leave it in the garage. Has nothing but bins and Tunerpro. It makes no sense but it made a diffrence in my mind anyway, seemed everytime I hook it to another comp I get some sort of problem.

[JohnnyReb]

Another thing, do not use the long ribbon cable and keep the USB as short as practical. I couldn't get anything done with the long ribbon and there are plenty of messages about those cables on the Moates site. I also had problems with a 9 ft USB cable, went to a 6 and solved the problem. Might have just been a bad cable but I never tried another to see.

[IsaacHayes]

Longer cable means voltage drop, and more susceptible to interference.

[Joseph Upson]

I purchased the complete outfit, in other words everything including my cable to chip adaptor is from Moates, so if the cable is to long I have no control over that and coincidently I did feel the cable is longer than what it needs to be. As for connecting to the computer, it has a USB cable connection and is an upgraded version so there should be no need to down grade my laptop.

It's not a difficult piece of equipment to use, the instructions need to be reworked and since the emulator only works with a handfull of older cars many of which share the same platforms for simplification the trouble is more so in the lack of instruction supplied with the unit. Again Datamaster went as far as to mention that the 8192 systems didn't need the 10 ohm circuit. Info like that saves you the wasted time of experimenting with the switch in the wrong position in an effort to get the unit working properly.

In my situation the unit worked properly for one car but not at all for another it was designed for.

The Moates forum barely has any traffic aside from the individuals posting with problems and it can easily be seen by looking at the dates on the posts that there is hardly anyone there to offer any direction although I was fortunate enough to get some help from 6 shooter whom I was acquainted with on the Z24 forum.

I picked up a video camera today so next trip home I'll at least be able to post some respectable footage to makeup for the crappy example posted from the digital camera I used.

I'll look into at least shortening the USB cable

[Joseph Upson]

Exhaust Sound Clip

There are two joints that need better sealing to eliminate the sucking sound that's produced on deceleration from scavenging pulling air into the gaps. I'm trying to figure out what to do to refine the exhaust note to something between open and glass packed. I don't like the truck like sound and am considering maybe trying a small balance tube between the split exhaust and possibly glasspacks with a smaller case than 5" or maybe some dual tips with some muffling ability. I have limited space so whatever I use has to be in the small size range on the Fiero.

I didn't want to post these clips because they're crappy, however I have a video camera now so next trial should be more appreciated. I believe the cam is at about the limit grind wise, vacuum hoovers around 13 and actually goes up initially when the pedal is pressed but that might be a side effect of the malfunctioning MAP sensor affecting timing. It's better to listen to the muffled exhaust first.

[IsaacHayes]

Dynomax Ultraflo. It will give a deeper sound with more rumble. The glass-packs sound too buzzy and rice sounding. The ultraflo is straight through as well so no loss in CFM really.

How come it takes so many cranks to start? Is the tune that far off? Maybe the bad MAP is causing that as well.

[Joseph Upson]

Dynomax Ultraflo. It will give a deeper sound with more rumble. The glass-packs sound too buzzy and rice sounding. The ultraflo is straight through as well so no loss in CFM really.

How come it takes so many cranks to start? Is the tune that far off? Maybe the bad MAP is causing that as well.

The MAP sensor is probably causing all sorts of trouble. The engine idles fine but requires full throttle (clear flood) starting and because of the trouble I was having I set the tables back to OE settings since removing fuel was showing the opposite effect at some points.

[Joseph Upson]

New MAP sensor installed and as suspected that was the problem. Now I have to find the persisting rev limit which is holding rpm to about 4700 rpm, it's not under "rev limiter" in Tunerpro, I've bumped all of those up over 6000 rpm and I'm still hitting a limit. Then I can make some adjustments to the tune in an effort to test drive it. During a datalog I noticed my BLM is constant after closed loop and normal operating temps. Not sure if there is a problem or not.

[Joseph Upson]

I just went over the datalog and noted that the engine never went into closed loop so that maybe why the BLM didn't change. I believe there is a bug in Tunerpro, I had the rev limiter problem before and it took Tunercat to iron it out. I checked and found the rev limiter to be set at just over 4000 rpm in Tunercat and moved it up over 6k. I checked it in Tunerpro and it is showing the lower rpm so that when I increase it in Tunerpro the value comes up decreased in Tunercat and visa-versa, but when increased in Tunercat the engine revs appropriately so the problem has to be Tunerpro.

[IsaacHayes]

closer... closer... I wonder how your 6speed will work out? You have yet to find all the bugs...

[Joseph Upson]

closer... closer... I wonder how your 6speed will work out? You have yet to find all the bugs...

I've actually moved the car up the street in an attempt to test drive it in the past so other than fine tuning the shift linkage for a better feel there shouldn't be a bug with that part of it although one axle isn't exactly the quality it needs to be. You keep the bug ideas for someone else, I've already met my quota.

[IsaacHayes]

Cool. IIRC didn't you press fit the axles together with a tube or something? That's what I'm wondering if it will hold when the real power hits the road. BTW did you use the G6 shifter (handle) assembly, or some how modify the 5spd one?

Not sure what the bug in tunerpro is. have you tried setting the RPM limit in TP really high, and then checking in tunercat? Maybe you gotta set it 2000 higher than what it says for it to be where you want? I know tunerpro has a bug in recording data logs on my car. It will display fine but when it records it is corrupt and won't play back, and if you make a .csv from it several tables are emtpy.... ScannerPro works fine but doesn't export .csv yet...

[Joseph Upson]

Cool. IIRC didn't you press fit the axles together with a tube or something? That's what I'm wondering if it will hold when the real power hits the road. BTW did you use the G6 shifter (handle) assembly, or some how modify the 5spd one?

Not sure what the bug in tunerpro is. have you tried setting the RPM limit in TP really high, and then checking in tunercat? Maybe you gotta set it 2000 higher than what it says for it to be where you want? I know tunerpro has a bug in recording data logs on my car. It will display fine but when it records it is corrupt and won't play back, and if you make a .csv from it several tables are emtpy.... ScannerPro works fine but doesn't export .csv yet...

Someone else on the Fiero forum tried press fit axles and no it didn't work well. The Fiero four speed shifter is the best option with a few modifications for the shifter.

The bug is in TunerproRT, if you max out the limiter fuel cut I believe, it will show just over 4K in Tunercat and will limit the rpm eventhough the value shows over 6k in Tunerpro. If you enter more than 6k in Tunercat it will register as just over 4k in TunerproRT but rpm will not be limited before 6k so the problem is in TunerproRT, thank goodness I happened to have Tunercat.

I've driven the car but it needs some more tuning, I'll have to connect the OE 3900 O2 sensorto power to get it to work properly it seems, so far the car has not gone into closed loop as far as I have datalogged so either it needs the heating option or it just will not work with the 730ecm. Since there are 4 wires I'll need to make sure I have connected to the proper wire.

I haven't seen boost just yet and have a fitting or two open allowing pressure to leak that must be closed.

[IsaacHayes]

I'm gonna guess here and say the 3900 O2 will not be compatible. Superdave was running the LX9 3500 O2 for a while but it never acted right, he went to the older style 3400/3100 heated ones and it works much better. They must have changed something in them.

Did you try to contact Mark about TunerPro? Or is it maybe a bug in the bin mask file thingy?

EDIT: Are you running the latest version?

v4.14.0381 (3/16/0

TunerPro Free & TunerPro RT

• Fixed Internet update server connection issue
• Fixed issue with Function item editor, where axis limits weren't being stored correctly