3900 swap into Fiero

[Joseph Upson]

I didn't get any detonation but the outlet temp of 101 deg C from the turbos is way to hot. Much hotter than what simulations show it should be for my setup so I'll be eager to see what water injection does for that. I could gain about 30/30 worth of power and torque if I could get the temp down to 100 deg F. I'm not sure why it's that hot. For my turbo combination .60/.48 turbine I have to run at least 10 psi to get into the 74% island but it appears I'm running in the 50% range if the outlet temp is any indication. The water injection nozzle will go ahead of the MAT sensor to measure the effect of the misting. I hope it lowers temps considerably or I'll have to consider a front mount intercooler and running long pipes back to the engine in the rocker panel moldings, there is room to fit the pipes I've already checked.

[ForcedFirebird]

Will it be easier to run the long charge pipes, or use a fan-cooled intercooler near the turbos to help reduce lag?

[Joseph Upson]

Will it be easier to run the long charge pipes, or use a fan-cooled intercooler near the turbos to help reduce lag?

I don't believe there will be much delay considering the performance of the rear mount turbo systems particularly referring to the Z24 example. I have a large intercooler as seen in my pictures and when I put my hand over one end and tried blow air into the other the pressure build up was instant and if the result is air temps less than a 100 deg F the gain will far exceed any potential lag that might develop.

There is not enough room for a fan cooled inter cooler of sufficient size in the engine area and the fan would need to move as much air as would pass through the core if it were in the windstream which I'm certain I wouldn't be able to manage in the small compartment area.

[Joseph Upson]

Back at it again. I'm just about finished with the exhaust. The headers 1 3/4" 14 Ga steel and along with the flanges from the store I'm very pleased with how it all has come together. So far the test fit is fine, the headers have been painted and because of a lack of gaskets so far it looks like the wastegates will be open dump again unless NAPA can come through for me tomorrow.

I have fabricated another wire harness to run Code59 and a 3 Bar MAP, that was completely disassembled first and repinned from plug A through F and installed in the car so that wires can't be cut to proper length and soldered to the sensor plugs. The engine bay will be a lot more civilized than before and that makes diagnosing problems should there be any much easier.

After the exhaust and harness are completed, I will add the 60 lb/hr injectors, Mallory 30-100 psi adjustable by-pass fuel pressure regulator which I would have purchased from the start for the returnless fuel rail had I been aware of its existance early own. I have a second Walbro fuel pump, external to compliment the in tank Walbro and will be changing out the solid mounts for the interlocking poly mounts.

I hope to have it ready for a test drive Monday.

[ForcedFirebird]

YAY!! I've been waiting to see more progress. Can't wait to have the time/materials to finish mine.

It's about time we get some exotic builds going.

Let me know how you like the $59. I also purchased a 3bar MAP and plan on using it.

EDIT: Interesting take on the collectors. Have more pics of them while you were building them? I thought about doing the same, but instead decided to nab some 3-1 5/8's swagged collectors. For $18/ea they are worth a try.

[Joseph Upson]

YAY!! I've been waiting to see more progress. Can't wait to have the time/materials to finish mine.

It's about time we get some exotic builds going.

Let me know how you like the $59. I also purchased a 3bar MAP and plan on using it.

EDIT: Interesting take on the collectors. Have more pics of them while you were building them? I thought about doing the same, but instead decided to nab some 3-1 5/8's swagged collectors. For $18/ea they are worth a try.

I considered 3-1 collectors but as you can see on the right bank (even cylinders) I didn't feel I had enough room for one and didn't see the point of butchering a perfectly good part when properly spaced. I did use 14 Ga steel and instead of dooming it all by heat wrapping it, I'm going to shield it with aluinum and put heat wrap over the shield itself to avoid accelerated corrosion.

I haven't solved the muffler problem yet as the OBX N1 mufflers I ordered were falsely advertised on ebay regarding the dimensions and they wound up far to big. They did issue a full refund so I'm not fussing especially since it freed up money for something else I want more for the car.

I'm about to go weld up the wastegates and will post more pictures later.

[bob442]

wow, that looks nuts. what are these 3900's in? and they are based on the 3400 block, are they not?

[IsaacHayes]

impalas, G6's, etc. No its a new block, but still a 60*v6.

[Joseph Upson]

Although I failed to get the much desired test drive with the revised exhaust and ecm code swap, I did complete the exhaust and it sounds amazingly quiet for the short time it ran with straight through mufflers that sounded similar to the Z car and infiniti V6 exhaust which is exactly what I was aiming for. No gurgling, no popping, no hollow can sound so far.

[IsaacHayes]

Sound good, but too bad it has the fart can look. I hope you can settle on an ECM code so you can get this thing tuned and actually running sometime!

[Joseph Upson]

Sound good, but too bad it has the fart can look. I hope you can settle on an ECM code so you can get this thing tuned and actually running sometime!

Fart cans on a 4 cylinder import, exhaust cannons on my Fiero. I'm sure they're made much better than the $20 N1 style mufflers on Ebay, at $63 a pop they better be. One thing is for sure, they sound better than the glasspacks that were on it, and were it not for the 4 cylinder mis-use they probably wouldn't be called fart cans. I marvel at why someone would want to make an otherwise slow 4 banger loud and slow.

[Joseph Upson]

Here is an exhaust test that includes the so called fart cans, they sound like anything but a buzzy import. I abandoned code59 for now and went back to 8F. I have a feeling switching to code59 later on might be more successful now that the engine is running.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/39L-open-exhaust-muffled_635875.htm

[RedBird]

Damn! that sounds amazing! those silencers ruin it, but with them out, that is pure sex!

You need to get this thing done and driving so the rest of us can benefit from this. I haven't looked around as of yet but i would like to know what you did for the VVT phaser. i'm sure it's around here somewhere but i haven't seen it. that, and the fact that my car is my DD, are the only things stopping me from putting a 3900 in my sunbird.

[Joseph Upson]

Damn! that sounds amazing! those silencers ruin it, but with them out, that is pure sex!

You need to get this thing done and driving so the rest of us can benefit from this. I haven't looked around as of yet but i would like to know what you did for the VVT phaser. i'm sure it's around here somewhere but i haven't seen it. that, and the fact that my car is my DD, are the only things stopping me from putting a 3900 in my sunbird.

I should be test driving it later today after all of the intake and intercooling plumbing is clamped up. I unlocked the VVT phaser from full retard and let it return to the stock position. I have much better vacuum at idle now.

My cam is reground so it should still perform well advanced, hopefully my bottom end response will be a lot stronger with 5 more inches of vacuum and headers. I have a Zeitronix WBO2 datalogger that has an auxillary output that I'm going to use to retard the cam. I tested it manually and it works because the engine rpm and sound changes when the module is energized.

You can use the shift light logic to control it also (on off) however it has a ~6360 rpm limit and I have my rev limit set around 6500.

I like the way it sounds muffled also, the silencers are a waste. I thought since the mufflers were straight through it would be loud so I shopped around on ebay until I found a silencer that would fit. When I listened to the video I could tell the mufflers were quieter without them.

[CNCguy]

Another yes vote for the race mufflers. They sound very good. Anxious to see what that beast will do.

I am having a hard time getting my head wrapped around what effects the cam travels will have on performance and how it is used to eliminate the EGR. The exhaust residue in the LZ9 LIM that I have suggests that, at some position, the cam timing allows exhaust to go into the intake and makes me wonder if the higher exhaust pressure of a turbo will have an adverse effect when the VVT is at max travel. Maybe... just maybe I think too damn much.

Anyway... great to see that you are making progress Joseph.