3900 swap into Fiero

[Superdave]

100% TPS will do the clear flood.. i gotta do that all the time.

[Joseph Upson]

The first step will be to check for 5 volts at terminal "C". I didn't think about that since I was closing up shop. Once that's established the remaining two terminals will more than likely be in the correct location and the MAP signal is just steady at max Kpa waiting for crank mode. That makes sense to me considering if there were no MAP sensor plugged up at power on it shouldn't show a WOT reading but instead 0 I would think. When I checked for diagnostic codes there were none and if the MAP sensor was disconnected I believe it would set a code before the engine was started.

[Joseph Upson]

I didn't attempt to start it today due to a late start and focus on putting it back together. I addressed the coolant temp sensor, I didn't feel modifying the $13 3-wire sensor was the best approach and since the coolant passages for the 3900 are not the same at both ends of the cylinder head gasket area I decided not to try to tap and dye or enlarge the current passage to fit the 3-wire sensor. What I settled for was a second stock sensor located in the coolant crossover. It will not supply input to the overheat light but at least the gauge will work. I can always tap it up to the Fiero sensor which is the same size as the 3 wire sensor.

[IsaacHayes]

Hahha. Cool. No power steering pump to worry about there either with your car.

[Joseph Upson]

It's alive! It's alive!

Finally broke down and purchased a CPS after getting tired of the two older ones teasing me.

It's running very rich and doesn't have the mufflers/glasspacks on yet and sounds pretty mean. The sound was taken from video on a digital camera and isn't all that great since the microphone can't handle the rasp from the exhaust note, but it'll at least give you an idea. The turbos can be heard spooling up just before the rich condition chokes the engine out.


Now I need someone to send me a known TGP 8F code XDF file, bin file and ADS file for datalogging in Tunerpro because the one I have does not work, I am not able to verify the bin file after loading it into the Moates APU1 emulator, the A1 code however works fine and allows datalogging and emulation at the same time. Since it's turbocharged I need the 8F code to work.

[ForcedFirebird]

Glad to hear it running. Sounds like you have it cam'd too?

[Joseph Upson]

Glad to hear it running. Sounds like you have it cam'd too?

It sounds like it but I believe that might have more to do with the rich tune because when I switched from the A1 (Beretta) code to the TGP code it started running a lot smoother. The cam was reground so there is a bit more duration.

Right now I'm accepting the disappointing performance of the Moates APU-1 emulator I spent $325 for that will not do what it's supposed to do, so now I'll have to hook up the Zeitronix WBO2 unit that I purchased which will take a lot more work but hopefully will get the tuning job done.

[CNCguy]

Joseph.... I don't know if this is possible with your ECM and BIN but I was able to pass the WB output through the 16149396 ECM with DF code using the AC pressure input and monitoring it with Tunerpro after I changed the .ADS file. I had to create a table in the .ADS file to convert the WB voltage. Not very hard to do. It's nice to have the WB info listed with the other data. I have an Ostrich and it acts flakey sometimes.

[Joseph Upson]

Joseph.... I don't know if this is possible with your ECM and BIN but I was able to pass the WB output through the 16149396 ECM with DF code using the AC pressure input and monitoring it with Tunerpro after I changed the .ADS file. I had to create a table in the .ADS file to convert the WB voltage. Not very hard to do. It's nice to have the WB info listed with the other data. I have an Ostrich and it acts flakey sometimes.

Thanks, I have the Zeitronix wideband O2 6 channel datalogger that I plan to wire up tomorrow for backup since it works independent of the ecm. I went out and tried the APU unit again and surprisingly it behaved a lot better. I was able to verify the uploaded bin with the Beretta files but it's the TGP code I need to work right. So far it appears it will emulate using the TGP code once again but I'll have to try some fiddling with the datalogging to try and get it to work.

The instructions are a bit confusing at times so there is a lot that can go wrong to cause a problem. I'm going to email Mark in hopes that he has a known working bin and ADS file for the TGP code because mine isn't working.


On the up side the exhaust is pretty much complete except for the support hangers for the mufflers. I still need to add the tranny fluid and make an adjustment to one of the axles after which I should be ready to start test driving.

[Joseph Upson]

You may have to wait a while before the video is released for viewing.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b4d3ee40-0e17-4e41-a5ed-99d901208ace.htm

[Spankdamonkey]

Oh my

[CNCguy]

Glad you are back at it. You are so close. Did you get your APU1 working or are you burning chips? Sounding better in the end.... def not as rich.

[Joseph Upson]

Glad you are back at it. You are so close. Did you get your APU1 working or are you burning chips? Sounding better in the end.... def not as rich.

No, I didn't get the APU-1 to work properly in the end and contrary to popular belief suddenly Moates is not being very helpful at the moment given I've heard nothing in the form of a reply from them since I first emailed them for guidance Sunday. The Zeitronix unit is working like a champ though and I recomend that for anyone wanting a practically priced piece of equipment for tuning.

It's unfortunate but you can't sympathize with the small buisnesses that offer a seemingly useful product and fail to accurately state that it may or may not do what they say it will, it either does dependibly or it doesn't. I sold the internal 7x ring before actually testing it on a running engine, if had not functioned properly I would have refunded those who purchased it.


Attached is a screen shot of the Zeitronix unit at work, to the left of the white line you can see a dip in the AFR graph representing about 12.5:1 just as the rpm is going up to indicate a pump shot but then it steadily goes lean as rpm is climbing indicating an area that needed fuel adjustments. I reduced the PE vs. TPS% table values considerably and that resulted indicating that I had found the proper table to take care of the rich ratio that resulted when the engine was reved, that along with a value higher than the actual fuel injector size to help reduce the base pulse width eliminated the smoke at idle and the puffs during rev cycles. I have to go back and continue to increase the table values a couple at a time until the AFR comes within range all the way through the TPS travel.

The squiggly lines to the far right represent the rev limiter kicking in with a 4000rpm limit which I later set to 7100 rpm. There are at least two rev limiters and I believe that one represents the fuel cut limiter since the AFR is oscillating between extreme lean and back down to optimal.

I will try to get my hands on a dedicated video camera when I go back and make a good video without that crappy popping noise screwing up that nice cammy idle. I'll also have to find the right mufflers to quiet it down and at the same time keep the character of the free flowing exhaust note which I think I can do by replacing what must be 5" diameter casing glass packs with 2.25" packs located at the rear center of the car so that there is room to run tail pipes out exit point again to help harmonize the exhaust note better. If you listen closely at the near end of the video you can hear the flutter from the packs installed as tail pipes.

I will also need to turn them around so that the louvers are facing the direction of the exhaust flow to see if that will change the sound. The manufacturer said facing the louvers into the exhaust would increase the life of the pack and quiet the exhaust down more however I didn't like the results at all.

Hopefully we'll see in about 5 wks.

[Joseph Upson]

There are other sensors that were not hooked up to the datalogger at the time I was testing it. I just wanted to get the WBO2 signal going so I could get an idea of how far off the tune was fuel wise. I have already assesed that I can add about 5 degrees of advance to the unboosted part of the spark table since I didn't get a couple of knock counts until the initial base timing was set from 9 deg to about 19 deg, while using the A1 Beretta code as a quick start test. The APU worked a little while with that but shortly afterwards went down hill.

[Blackrider]

Why fuel rail and injectors are you using?