1997 Malibu 3.1 Upgrade options...

[3400-95-Modified]

Oh yeah... kinda looked like a 16 at first...

hell, I sold those heads anyways...

[Baldeagle242]

Three questions...
1. Are there thinner performance head gaskets avalible for the 2005-3400? Anyone know the part number? I have read the other threads regarding this issue but I still get a little confused with the whole Gen 1, Gen2, Gen 3, Iron head, aluminum head, OVER MY HEAD blaaa...blaaa...blaaa. (Just tell me what my options are (if any) for the 2005 3400 )
2. What would be the best choice for cam grinds on a stock 3400? (stock, other than the head gasket to increase compresion)
3. Will I need new valve springs with the cam you recomend?

Guess that was 4 questions.

Things to keep in mind...I don't want to get into any machine work and this motor will never have turbo or a super charger. I will be running the stock tuned computer but MAY invest in a DHP tunner down the road. The only other thing I MAY consider is a NOS system after this is all done and back together.

[El_Diablo]

just an FYI, any time you remove the heads you should have them milled for a flat surface so that the new gaskets seat properly, few people do this but its an important step

the only real options you have on cams are regrinds and grinds based off of what ben carries in the store and of course milzy....

valve float can occure stock at 5500rpms, imagine what adding lift and duration will do to that....



only thing i would really do if your keeping it N/A and just plan to spray, depending on the amount you might want to look into getting some pistons made

oh and BTW, the trans is the weakest link, hope your planning something for it if your looking for more than 250hp, i would recomend atleast an LSD but a good starting point would be a rebuilt 03+ 4t45 with an LSD and welded diff pin... this should hold over 300hp and over 300ft.lbs from what ive seen

few more sites you might wanna check you- www.unitedmalibus.com www.mpracing.org and www.malibuclub.ca


how much power are you looking for? i dont think you ever set any hard goals in this thread but its been a long time since ive read the beginning....

[Baldeagle242]

just an FYI, any time you remove the heads you should have them milled for a flat surface so that the new gaskets seat properly, few people do this but its an important step
I agree, I guess If I do this I could have .010"? to .020"??? taken off the heads and just use stock head gaskets.

the only real options you have on cams are regrinds and grinds based off of what ben carries in the store and of course milzy....

valve float can occure stock at 5500rpms, imagine what adding lift and duration will do to that....
I kinda assumed stronger springs were going to be needed. I guess I should plan on new springs regardless of what I do with the cam.


only thing i would really do if your keeping it N/A and just plan to spray, depending on the amount you might want to look into getting some pistons made.
I have been looking at the 75 to 100 HP kits that Summit, Jegs and others sell in a kit for $500 to $600 bucks.

oh and BTW, the trans is the weakest link, hope your planning something for it if your looking for more than 250hp, i would recomend atleast an LSD but a good starting point would be a rebuilt 03+ 4t45 with an LSD and welded diff pin... this should hold over 300hp and over 300ft.lbs from what ive seen
I figure I will be looking for a new trans about 7 to 14 days after I get this back together. This is something I will seriously consider before adding spray. I will keep my eyes open for a trans and figure that into the cost of adding spray

few more sites you might wanna check you- www.unitedmalibus.com www.mpracing.org and www.malibuclub.ca
Thank You.


how much power are you looking for? i dont think you ever set any hard goals in this thread but its been a long time since ive read the beginning....
Well... Thats like asking how much money do I want? The problem is power and money seem to go in opposite directions. I guess the best way to seriously answer this is to say I want enough to be surprising. I want this car to be a sleeper. If I had to put a number on it I would say somewhere between 200 and 220 without spray. If I figured correctly the stock 3400 has 180HP. If I can increase compression from 9.5:1 to 10:1 this should get me to around 195 and If I add a modest cam and springs that should put me in the 215 to 220HP range.

Thanks for all the info.

[El_Diablo]

your welcome

few things though, if you get the trans you will need to have the setup tuned most likely to get the most use out of it and its a must if you go with a different gear ratio, big thing is to weld in the diff pin though as ive seen a few of those go, most memorable being Todd Johnsons (tejohnson) where it absolutly smashed the case, kinda cool to look at but that would kinda suck...

i take it your going for a wet shot, i would try and go for a fogger system and either an enrichment system (just get a 1 gallon fuel cell and a decent lil pump) or you'll prolly want to upgrade the stock fuel system so you dont have any chances of leaning out

if i were you i would still atleast consider swapping pistons simply for reliability in the long run as these will be your weakest links

the trans should take 220 (crank, which is the most you would prolly see) without issue for a while but its the spray that might shock the trans into breaking

you might want to look at either the 3500 top end swap (requires tuning but your already going down to the heads anyways) or a P&Ped top end from ben with a 62 or 65mm TB, to follow everything up i would get a set of S&S headers and a high flow car and go with a full 2.5 inch mandrel bent exhaust

this setup would actually have you higher on your actual HP which would mean you would rely less on spray, it will cost more initially but if your heavy on the spray it will pay off because you prolly wont need pistons and you wont be getting the bottle filled as much because you wont need as large of a shot to achieve the same results

[IsaacHayes]

If you want 200-220 a cam, and headers, and nice full exhaust with high flow cat and straight through muffler should get you somewhere in that range. You will defiantly need a DHP to tune if you are looking for that much of an increase as the stock ECM can only adjust so much. Plus if you get a hot nasty cam to make some good power you'll have to tune it to keep it running well.

There are other things you could do such as 3500 heads & intake manifolds too. Forget about a thinner headgasket, it won't gain you much power and it's been said that any thinner can be dangerous especially with a radical cam.

Check out 3400-95-Modified's setup. Sounds like what you want.

Funny I remember you saying at first you weren't sure about a 3400 that it sounded like too much work now you want to trick it out! hehehe.

[Baldeagle242]

Funny I remember you saying at first you weren't sure about a 3400 that it sounded like too much work now you want to trick it out! hehehe.

Well... I did say that about the 3400 swap but I always had plans to build the 3100. After the replies I got here when I said I was going to build the 3100 it made the 3400 swap seem like a peice of cake and a no brainer. After looking at the two motors side by side I am glad I decided to swap in a 3400.
As far as 200 to 220HP... Maybe that is wishfull thinking.(I am still trying to figure out what this motor will/can do.)
I am cool with putting another $500 or $600 into this motor.(not including a DHP tunner, spray and a beaf'ed up trans that I can buy months down the road.) With that budget I think I am limited to a cam, springs and possibly very minor head work.(I am sure head work will push my budget over $600 though.) The 3500 top end swap also sounds appealing but I can also do this down the road once the motor is back in the car.
However... Looking at this on the other hand I could put it in bone stock still have more power than the 3100 and add spray right away and be done with it.(Ya right... I am never done )
Like I said when I made my first or second post I am more of a V8 guy. After looking at what it takes(price wise) these motors take a lot of $'s to make what seems like little power per dollar compaired to an old school chevy v8. The cost of the tunner(and my lack of knowledge about it) is what discourages me more than anything. I feel like that is $400 bucks I could put towards mechanical engine/trans parts.(I know I need to quit living in the past )
Anyways, I never stop thinking about what my options are for any project so forgive me if I use this forum as a sounding board from time to time. I may appear to deviate and get off track now and then. Anyone want to buy a 1997 Malibu and a 2005 3400?

[El_Diablo]

sure... how much? your not that far away and im in need of a daily driver and i wouldn't mind having a lil extra power... if your anywhere near serious about selling lemme know

[IsaacHayes]

Think of the powertuner as a new carb and distrib... cause it affects fueling and spark... Only you can always change it for no cost later on!

[Baldeagle242]

sure... how much? your not that far away and im in need of a daily driver and i wouldn't mind having a lil extra power... if your anywhere near serious about selling lemme know

NOT!

[3400-95-Modified]

i take it your going for a wet shot, i would try and go for a fogger system and either an enrichment system (just get a 1 gallon fuel cell and a decent lil pump) or you'll prolly want to upgrade the stock fuel system so you dont have any chances of leaning out

Over kill... I was running a 100 wet shot on a stock fuel system and never had a problem. I just recently upgraded to a walbro high pressure pump to support my 28# injectors plus the NOS on this new motor.

I have yet to run it at the strip but I'm sure this is making quite a bit of power, on the juice that is. Off it, I'm expecting decent numbers but nothing ground breaking.

Also my 100 shot was a 1 nozzle fogger system but the jetting seemed weird to me since they are all listed the same regardless of cylinders/displacement... Thats got me confused, but It dynoed with a 60WHP gain.

[El_Diablo]

it is but the thing i like about enrichment systems is that you can have your 1 gallon tank running 110 and you can still keep 89 in the cars main fuel tank which will give you a lil more power if you can use it effectively but will still keep your wallet a lil heavier on the daily fuel stops, i also just flat out like overkill and overbuilt systems because my car needs to be somewhat reliable

on my setup i'll prolly end up running just a 25 spool shot from zex (they just came out with a nice controler that turns off the nitrous once you reach your preset boost level) in the end but for now im contemplating getting a lil setup and running 50 on a single fogger

[Baldeagle242]

Okay, it has been a while since I had a chance to work on this project and after sitting back pondering it for a while I have decided to keep the 3400 stock. Thanks to everyone who posted information in regards to building this motor. Your replies did help me to realize what my options where but in the end I just don't want to put any extra cash into this project.
With that said I still have a 3400 to install and have run into some areas of concern. Most of the problems I have been able to figure out but this I thought I should ask a few questions.
The problem is the wiring harness for the fuel injectors from the 3100 and the 3400 are different.(see picture) My first thought was to just take the harness from the 3100 and swap it onto the 3400. I pulled the UIM and found the injectors also have two different style plugs.(see pictures)
I can think of a few options myself but wanted to see what others have done to make this work.

[bszopi]

I am pretty sure people have kept the 3100 harness and just spliced on the 3400 injector connectors. I know on my 3400 swap, I just kept the 3100 injectors and bumped up the fuel pressure some. Its run just fine for 3.5 years now.

[Baldeagle242]

<Edit>CAUTION... Please read the rest of this tread below if you are attempting this same swap. The 3400 injectors do not play well with the stock 3100 ECM. This turned out to be a waste of time for me.<Edit>


Here is what I have done with the fuel injector harness. I took the 3100 harness and soldered all of the 3400 fuel injector connectors on to it. I then heat shrinked the connections. I realy did not want to swap the injectors themself so I think this was my best bet. I have not seen this step mentioned (or I have overlooked it) in other posts.