H-body with 60*V6 swap?

[TurboSedan]

as far as i know the '92+ H-bodies (Bonneville, Lesabre, Delta 88 etc) didn't come with a 60*V6 correct? would alot of custom work/fabrication needed to be done to drop a 60*V6 into one (motor mouts, trans mount etc). i'm really wanting to get a '92-'95 SSEi but at the same time i'd much rather stick with a 60*V6 powered car ecspecially since i have this 3400 sitting in my garage.

i'm partial to the 60*V6 but i really want a '92-'95 SSE or SSEi.

[86euro]

I think custom engine mounts will be needed, as I don't recall any car with a 60v6 that used the same style. The tranny mounts should be able to be reused as long as the tranny stays (same style mounts as a-body BTW).

[SappySE107]

I doubt you will find another H body with a 60V6 swapped in. Document it if you end up doing it I don't know how the H body is setup for the engine mounts.

[sharkey]

if im thinking of the same car, the motor mounts to the subframe, the mount brackets bolt to the side of the block. the transmission does mount the same way as an A body.

[TurboSedan]

yeah it would definately be a 4T60 IF i did do it (non E, i'd want to run TGP code & 1227727 ECM on a turbocharged 3400). i would rather not mess with the Getrag 282/284 clutch pedal/hydraulics. i need to sell (or trade) my Turbo 5-speed Cutlass first though as i have no room for 3 cars. i just want something new to mess with and i'd prefer to keep my GS a stock daily driver.

i'm working on my brother to buy my Regal GS for under book value and give me his '94 SSE. it would probably be much easier to stick with a '92 or '93 SSE/SSEi though since they are already OBD-1. i've never done an OBD swap of any sort so i really have no clue if the bulkhead connector for the firewall would have to be repinned, changed completely, does it plug right in? does the entire underdash harness need to be swapped out when going from OBD 1.5/2 -to- OBD-1 etc...

i have alot of research to do haha. i'd think i'd be better off sticking with a '92/'93 car...

[patgizz]

i'm willing to bet the engine harness from an OBD1 3800 would work on OBD1 60*v6 swap. all the sensors are the same, injector plugs same, etc. just might need to reroute some wires.

i can't recall exactly what mount styles the H body uses, its been 9 years since i had my 3800 lesabre, but it can't be that hard. i'm sure i could knock the swap out in a weekend.

[TurboSedan]

i'm willing to bet the engine harness from an OBD1 3800 would work on OBD1 60*v6 swap. all the sensors are the same, injector plugs same, etc. just might need to reroute some wires.

i can't recall exactly what mount styles the H body uses, its been 9 years since i had my 3800 lesabre, but it can't be that hard. i'm sure i could knock the swap out in a weekend.

i thought the wiring harness would be way different. isn't it Series I '92-'93 OBD-1 L27/L67 3800 MAF/SFI with alot more wires going to the ICM?

[patgizz]

i'd have to get a look at them to see.

you could always just get whatever harness you want and get the FSM diagram of the C100 and repin things to match. the hangup you run into here is there could be some things controlled by the engine harness of one car that are controlled by the body harness of the other car, and could wind up with something of a non powered fuel pump. the 88-94 W's are like this, somewhere along the line some items changed from the engine harness to the body harness in 94. i've got a 91 harness in the 94 euro and there are some redunduncies.

i think i have an OBD2 W body 3400 harness and pcm upstairs for if you start doing something like this.

[TurboSedan]

OBD-2 would mean tuning with a PowerTuner right? sorry, i just really have no idea if they would support an application like this or not. i was really just hoping to stick with modified #8F TGP code tuning wih TunerPro RT and an emulator and WB02 input.

about the C100 connector - are they the same shape for every car line? i mean, could you physically just plug in a '91 Cutlass Supreme 3.1/4T60 engine wiring harneess into the firewall of a '93 Bonneville? re-pinning things would be cake (i've had it apart before and it looks like all i'd need to do is pull out some plastic retainers and then just switch wires around). i'll definately be getting an FSM for my car, i can't believe i don't have one already. i'd have to wait until after i bought a Bonneville to get the other FSM though.

i think i'm going to have to pull the drivetrain out of a Bonneville and lower my 3400 down into the engine bay with a 4T60 attatched (possibly go 282?) then see where i am at and go from there. as far as i know the engine cradle for an LQ1 car (obviously W-body) is the same as an engine cradle from a Series I 1st GEN Buick Regal with the 3800. i'm hoping i can swap some bracketry & mounts around for the lower engine mount on the cradle but i'm sure it's not going to be as easy as that. also, the '92-'95 Bonneville doesn't use dogbones; instead it uses a passenger side engine mount. does the passenger side motor mount replace the function of the dogbones? i'm pretty sure my mom's '99 Grand Am GT uses a passenger side engine mount with no dogbones, but i could be wrong. maybe some swapping of bracketry/mounts could be done there as well to simplify things. or am i going to have to somehow adapt dogbones to the '92-'95 Bonneville? and for that matter would the Bonneville radiator support be strong enough to handle that? i would think the 4T60 transmission mounting shouldn't be a problem since they both use the 4T60. i'd love to go with a 282, but that sounds like so much more fabrication (hanging the clutch pedal, mounting the shifter and clutch master cylinder, would the W-body/282 trans mount line up with the H-body subframe?, could i find shifter cables that were long enough? etc.). besides, the gearing of the Getrag 282 is way too steep IMHO for all of the low end torque a turbocharged 3400 would produce. however the Bonneville is heavier, and a larger turbo that spools faster with possibly staged boost control could be used to help traction in 1st and 2nd. it's non-existant in my Cutlass right now but that's not all because of the gearing of course. i really wish a numerically lower FDR was available, somethiing like 3.23 for the 282 would be so nice. not to mention Quaife or OBX style LSD. hrmm...alot to think about.

i think i'm going to check out my mom's '99 Grand Am GT (LA1) and my brother's '94 Bonneville SSE (L27) and try to figure things out from there for starters. i really think i can do the wiring, but physically mounting it is what i'm most worried about. just think of all the engine room you'd have with a 60*V6 in an H-body....might as well just run two Garrett T3s the end of each exhaust manifold. you could have them posistioned so that the crossover pipe would actually be part of the downpipe; like a 'Y' shaped downpipe that would join up together somewhere between the top of the transmission area and back of the engine on the driver's side, with each turbo's compressor side facing outwards. no turbo in the way of the throttle body would be nice. just think of all of that plumbing underhood. i'd likely just stick with one larger turbo, but you would definately have enough room to work with.

i'm still trying to see if my brother will do a cash/trade deal on my Regal GS, that way i could keep my Turbo Cutlass and have no car loan. the only downside is that i'd really rather keep my Regal GS as a stock daily driver i don't fuck with whereas having a modified Bonneville as a project car and a Turbo Cutlass as a daily driver (that would be modded further if i kept it) would probably be a headache, ecspecially considering my job. if the Cutlass broke down i couldn't get to work (pizza delivery, but hey, i make $15-$20/hour doing it which works pretty well and it's FUN delivering in a Turbo 5-speed Cutlass!).

anyways, i'm rambling after only 2hrs of sleep so i'll leave it at that for now.

thanks again Pat

[93RegalGS]

Just so you know Josh, the ECM in 92-95 Bonnevilles is in the passenger footwell area. The 94-95 Bonneville had a smaller Memcal with EEPROM instead of the Regular Memcals with EPROMs found in many other GM's. Although I'm not sure you'd be able to run a 3400 with the 3800 ECM. The C260 (The connector with wired from the ECM to the engine) is right behind grommet 102, which is behind the a/c accumulator.

If I were you, I'd do away with the ECM inside the car and move it to the airbox area. GM did this themselves in 1996.

And you're correct about the L27/LQ1 mount being in the same spot on 1st gens. Now there isn't a mount in that spot in that generation H body. Although the 1st gen H body DID have use a mount in that spot and GM kept the provisions for that mount on 2nd gen H bodies. So you may be able to use the LQ1 engine mount. And you're correct about N bodies having the torque axis mount. My dad's 94 Corsica has one as well. I actually would try that route first. I would not recommend putting a dogbone on the radiator support. It isn't NEARLY as strong as W Bodies. That is, unless you reinforce it.

I included pictures of an H-body torque axis mount (you can kind of see it), The L27 engine mount in a W-body, and a Picture showing the area where the C260/P102 is located, and pictures of a 94 3800 Memcal.

[TurboSedan]

wow thanks Sean very helpful!