stand alone, what to go with

[sharkey]

im realy in need of tuning and it isnt practical to burn chips for me (7302 ecm, need to swap to a different chip, or swap ecm to 7730). im realy wanting something easy to work with (unlike burning chips).

ive been looking into the megasquirt a lot, but im still very unsure with it. tuning seems to be a bit interesting, although im sure once you get the hang of it its simple. the one thing i notice is it doesnt have a fan control (or am i looking at it wrong).

ive been looking at haltech, fast xfi, dfi, ect stand alones. they are a lot of money, but they seem a lot more user friendly and a way more complete package.

basicly what im getting ta is what should i go with??? i know its a very hard thing for others to point out, but im getting a bit lost. im still learning the efi stuff, i grew up on blown alcohol with mechanical injection.

i know a few of you are running stand alone setups. what are you running, would you recomend it, and does it have all the fetures you want??? basicly im looking for something to do fuel and spark, options for wide band o2, run the cooling fan, and run the IAC.

im hoping some one may be able to point me in some direction, im getting a bit lost on what i need for running my 2.8 ironhead.

[ryan.hess]

for 1/3 the price of a standalone, you can get an emulator and don't have to burn any chips.

[sharkey]

yea i can get am emulatror. however because of the stock ecm i have (7302) i cant do it. that ecm uses a 24 pin rom (not even a prom), were everything else built uses a 28 pin eprom. i cant just plug an emulator into it. also i can just burn a rom, as no program out there suports it. i looking into what id have to do, and basicly i gotta adapt an eprom into that ecm (no easy task) or swap in a newer ecm, like a 7730. i beleive by the time i wire in a new ecm, buy the emulator or burner, software, deffinitrion files, im better off going with something else. by the time i do all that, i have a megasquirt payed for, if i go that route.

[ryan.hess]

swap in a newer ecm, like a 7730. i beleive by the time i wire in a new ecm, buy the emulator or burner, software, deffinitrion files

That's what I'd go for. Software and definition files are free. Ecm is maybe $30 at a junkyard. Emulator is maybe $175(?). You'll have a setup 5x better than a stand alone. Not only that, but you'll have a good binary to start with. I'm not familiar with your current computer, but it's very likely you can just repin to the new computer connectors. No wiring necessary.

something like megasquirt can't do decel fuel cutoff for better gas mileage. Can't do any speed related throttle following so you don't stall. I made a list of things most aftermarkets can't do that GM computers can that I posted on another site. I can find it and post it if you want... Just remember GM spends millions developing their computer. Megasquirt is a collaboration between a few hobbyists. Holley, Haltech, etc wouldn't have the resources or desire to put together a top rate computer like a stock GM one. my 2 cents.

[sharkey]

i did a lot of research into tuning a stock pcm. i found it rather complex. i dont like the programs avalible (tunercats and tunerpro), gmpcm was the best one i saw, and thats now finnished. ive looked for a 7730 ecm, all places i can find want $100 for them.

the megasquirt does do decell fuel cut. it also can run fuel enrich for nitrous, and has a boost controller. not things in going to use at the moment, but never know what the future holds.

bottom line here, ive done my research on tuning a stock ecm, and ive decided thats not the route i wanna go. i want to go stand alone, im just not sure on what route i should take with it, and thats what this thread is about.



anyone have any input from my original post???

[bszopi]

Couple more out there...

SDS-EFI (www.sdsefi.com) - nice, because it doesn't require a laptop

Anything from Perfect Power (www.perfectpower.com)

[donk_316]

What about AEM? They make a universal unit, also Greddy has there Emanage ultimate....not a true stand alone but pretty fricking cool.

[treeZ24]

i just ordered the sds-em4f

should be here by friday,

i liked it because of the no laptop, its a race unit really though, closed loop and accel cutoff are options that can be programmed in

down side is you have to make a crank trigger bracket and machine the pully, but its worthwhile doing

[TurboGt]

Re: stand alone, what to go with

ive been looking into the megasquirt a lot, but im still very unsure with it. tuning seems to be a bit interesting, although im sure once you get the hang of it its simple. the one thing i notice is it doesnt have a fan control (or am i looking at it wrong).

ive been looking at haltech, fast xfi, dfi, ect stand alones. they are a lot of money, but they seem a lot more user friendly and a way more complete package.

If you go with a version 3 board and the MSI chip (MegaSquirtnSpark-Extra code) you will be able to conrol your fans, boost, nitrous, and a few other things. The only problem is you cant control your IAC with it.

One of the best things about going with the route above is when the new GPIO board comes out you can upgrade your MS to MSII by just buying the $70 chip and pluging it in, loading the new code and importing your tune you had with MSI. When the GPIO board comes out you will be able to conrotl auto transmissions, boost, nitrous, log fuel pressure, oil temp, make it into a car alarm, log suspension movement, and a ton of other stuff. Here are some threads about what people are wanting to do with the GPIO board.

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=16133

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=16153

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=16154

I have a version 3 board and MSII in my Fiero and I will be the first to admit that it is hard at first to get everything set where you want (I am still working on it). From what I have heard, once you learn how to tune with it, it is very easy to do. At school we have a Motec ecu that is capable of doing almost anything you want ( to run our formula SAE car), the only problem is there is no one that I know of to ask querstions to when you run into problems. The program is very un-user friendly and we have had problems every year with the unit, it has even made it so we couldnt compete.

I'm not saying it is a bad unit, I'm just saying any stand alone system is going to take a lot of learning to figure out. I love my MS because of all the help I can get from people online, and I feel that it is just as capable as anyother ECU out there (besides the fact that you cant run sequential injection, but that is going to change soon) with the ability to be as sophisticated as you want. If I were you I would join the MS forums and post this question over there. I realize you will get a bias answer but there are a lot of people over there that have ran other stand alone systems, and if you want to go the MS route can help you get the unit that suits you the best.

If you have any questions about MS just let me know, I cant say I know alot but might be able to point you in the right dirrection.

http://www.msefi.com/index.php

[sharkey]

well, i spent most of yesterday looking at the megasquirt, and getting the sns extra into megatune, and all i can say is wow. there are a lot of things i was vert confused on because all i had before to look at was megatune beta and the squirt n spark program. now that its all in one, its way easier to understand. i was also going through the tuning instructions and comming up with a base tuneup so i can get a feel for it.

im likley going to go megasquirt. after a bunch of reading, i discovered all they are doing with the iac is using it as a fast idle valve, they dont have programing for rpm feedback idle, as they dont want any programing glitches to be responsible for cars crashing due to the iac not closing. after reading all that, im more inclined to just run the fast idle valve.

my next thing is do i build it myself or buy the assembled version??? i can solder to circuit boards, i can follow instructions, but im not realy good with electronic components (lets call it a lack of experiance). are the instructions easy to follow and everything clear??? or do you need a degree n electronics to figure it out??? there is a $160 difference between the 2, if its not to hard, id like to assemble it myself. a guy in my car club has just done a megasquirt 1 v2.2 on his turbo ecotec as a fuel controller, so i may be able to give him a couple bucks to borrow the stimulator, saving me the extra cash.

[TurboGt]

well, i spent most of yesterday looking at the megasquirt, and getting the sns extra into megatune, and all i can say is wow. there are a lot of things i was vert confused on because all i had before to look at was megatune beta and the squirt n spark program. now that its all in one, its way easier to understand. i was also going through the tuning instructions and comming up with a base tuneup so i can get a feel for it.

im likley going to go megasquirt. after a bunch of reading, i discovered all they are doing with the iac is using it as a fast idle valve, they dont have programing for rpm feedback idle, as they dont want any programing glitches to be responsible for cars crashing due to the iac not closing. after reading all that, im more inclined to just run the fast idle valve.

my next thing is do i build it myself or buy the assembled version??? i can solder to circuit boards, i can follow instructions, but im not realy good with electronic components (lets call it a lack of experiance). are the instructions easy to follow and everything clear??? or do you need a degree n electronics to figure it out??? there is a $160 difference between the 2, if its not to hard, id like to assemble it myself. a guy in my car club has just done a megasquirt 1 v2.2 on his turbo ecotec as a fuel controller, so i may be able to give him a couple bucks to borrow the stimulator, saving me the extra cash.

The only nice thing about having the stepper IAC is you can adjust your idle in 10 different steps based on coolent temp. If you go with the fast idle solonid you only get two choices (high idle or idle), so if you want to adjust it you have to have a screwdriver and manually adjust your throttle plates. They are also talking about making the idle dependent on rpm and engine load, so if your a/c turns on it will up the idle.

I would not call myself an electrical expert by any meens, and I built my own. The instructions are very easy to follow and I didnt even have a stim board. I think if you build it your self you have the ability to fix it if there is ever a problem. I say save the $160 and save another $40 and buy a wide ban with the money .

I would also go with the newly revised V.3 board. I has built in fuses on the 5v output circut to protect itself, and a few other things built in. When I was installing mine I accidently put 12V to the 5V out circut and popped a diode. I went online found the wiring diagrams and went to radio shack got a new diode and was up and running in no time.

Here is where I got my MS kit and also my wide ban o2

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-engine-management-system-wpcb3-unassembled-p-59.html

[TurboGt]

Also I dont know where you started reading but this has a great menu so you can keep track of what you have read

http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mtabcon.htm

[sharkey]

yea i read the whole tuning section of that. i have been looking at different parts of that manual.

[XLR8ING]

On the top of stand alones, has anyone ever found a unit that will work with the stock crank sensors on the 60 degrees?
I've never seen anything, but figured I'd ask.

[TurboGt]

I didnt change a single sensor when I changed mine over to MS