Master pinout/16236757

[ericjon262]

I've been working on a master pinout for the 16236757 and similar obd2 60V6 PCMs thought I would share my progress, anything labled "O" I don't have info on. I've attached the sheet as a PDF.

some interesting notes:

• there are 3 O2 sensor inputs on this PCM, one for each bank, and one for post cat
• some 3800's use the same PCM's, and have dual knock sensors.

I've made a table of the different vehicle pinouts, that show's which vehicle used which pin, it can be viewed here:

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1898-GM-V6-PCM-pinouts&p=23564#post23564

I tried posting it here, but this site didn't like the table, it just made a big ugly list...

here's the list style:

Blue PCM connector pins
1. Transmissino fluid temp Sensor ground
2. 2nd gear start indicator
3. Fuel level output
4. Shift solenoid a
5. Fan 2
6. Fan1
7. Cam position sensor input
8. Low frequency crank position
9. High frequency crank position
10. 5 volt reference
11. O
12. ECT ground
13. Map ground
14. O
15. Serial data
16. PCM ground
17. IAT Ground
18. O
19. Ignition Feed
20. Battery Feed
21. O
22. Transmission range A
23. O
24. O
25. O
26. O
27. HO2S
28. HO2s
29. HO2S
30. TCC brake input
31. EGR pintle position sensor ground
32. EGR control(EGR Ground?)
33. Bank one knock sensor
34. Bank two knock sensor
35. O
36. Alternator charge warning lamp(generator control?)
37. O
38. IAC B High
39. Fuel pump speed control relay
40. O
41. O
42. O
43. Injector control (1 60v6/6 for 3800)
44. Shift solenoid B
45. AIR valve control
46. Injector control (3 60v6/4 3800
47. Injector control (2 60v6/5 3800
48. Reference low (IGN mod ground)
49. O
50. O
51. O
52. O
53. Ignition control bypass
54. Ignition control
55. VSS output
56. PCM ground
57. PCM ground
58. ClassII (? typo maybe, 2000 grand am 3.4 pinout)
59. Class 2 serial data
60. PCM ground
61. TPS ground
62. Input shaft speed sensor low (4t65e)
63. Input shaft speed sensor high(4t65e)
64. VSS high in
65. VSS low in
66. O
67. O
68. Transaxle range position switch B
69. MAF Signal
70. Theft deter fuel enable
71. Traction control desired torque input
72. Cruise control inhibit
73. Injector control (5 60v6/2 3800)
74. O
75. ECT hot warning lamp
76. EVAP purge solenoid
77. O
78. O
79. Injector control(6 60v6/1 3800
80. A/C pressure sensor ground.


Clear connector
1. O
2. EVAP canister vent control
3. Fuel pump relay control
4. EGR Valve control
5. SES light
6. Low oil light
7. IAC valve A High
8. Tach output signal
9. Traction control delivered torque control
10. HO2S signal
11. HO2S signal
12. HO2S signal
13. O
14. O
15. Transaxle range switch P
16. PNP switch signal?
17. Transmission range C(4L60e)
18. Transaxle range switch A (clutch anticipate switch)
19. Oil pressure switch
20. O
21. 2nd gear start signal
22. A/C request
23. Crank signal?
24. Ignition positive voltage
25. Map sensor signal
26. ECT signal
27. A/C pressure signal
28. EGR pintle position signal
29. generator pin F
30. 5 Volt reference
31. O
32. Fuel tank pressure 5 V ref A
33. 5 volt reference A
34. 5 volt reference B
35. Fuel tank pressure/level Sensor ground
36. Change oil lamp
37. O
38. O
39. A/C compressor relay control
40. O
41. O
42. Injector control(4 60v6/3 3800)
43. O
44. IAC valve A Low
45. Pressure control solenoid high
46. Pressure control solenoid low
47. O
48. 3-2 solenoid control
49. IAC valve B Low
50. IAT sensor
51. O
52. O
53. O
54. O
55. Fuel tank pressure signal
56. Transaxle range switch C
57. Transmission range B (4L60e)
58. Oil level signal
59. Cruise status
60. O
61. Generator terminal L
62. O
63. TCC release switch input (4t65E)
64. O
65. O
66. TPS signal
67. O
68. Trans fluid temp signal
69. Fuel level sensor input
70. High frequency crank position ground
71.
72. Cam position power supply
73. Cam position sensor ground
74. High frequency crank position power supply
75. AIR pump relay control
76. Starter enable (VATS?)
77. Boost control solenoid control circuit
78. TCC PWM solenoid control
79. TCC enable solenoid control
80. O

[robertisaar]

so that's what you were working on...

[ericjon262]

so that's what you were working on...

yeah, thought it might be useful for 5 speed swaps, I plan to wire up the clutch switch like the 5 speed 3800 F bodies. it's also interesting to see some of the other inputs that aren't in use on our engines. it would be interesting to see some of them "patched" to our programming, like the dual knock sensors, and left and right O2 sensors.

[robertisaar]

i can't read 68332 disassembly very well, otherwise i might have had a little info on that...

the dual O2 sensors MAY be able to be done due to SAE requirements of O2 sensor data being loggable. the PCM likely wouldn't be able to make fueling adjustments off of it, but you would be able to log it.

the dual knock sensors... i know a little about how that setup works since i've investigated it a bit myself for OBD1 retrofit. there is a small chip inside the PCM that directly interfaces to the knock sensors, there's actually programmable settings for target frequency, sensitivity, etc... anyways, the main processor sends info over the SPI link to the knock sensor chip and it will constantly grab data from the selected knock sensor(s) and report back when it determines knock has been found. selecting between 1 and 2 knock sensors is as simple as sending a slightly different command over the SPI link. if one were to know where the SPI data is written to in the program, you could probably see an option bit selecting between 1 and 2 sensors...

[ericjon262]

I don't know much on the programming side, I'm going to learn more on that down the road

[TGP37]

i can't read 68332 disassembly very well, otherwise i might have had a little info on that...

the dual O2 sensors MAY be able to be done due to SAE requirements of O2 sensor data being loggable. the PCM likely wouldn't be able to make fueling adjustments off of it, but you would be able to log it.

the dual knock sensors... i know a little about how that setup works since i've investigated it a bit myself for OBD1 retrofit. there is a small chip inside the PCM that directly interfaces to the knock sensors, there's actually programmable settings for target frequency, sensitivity, etc... anyways, the main processor sends info over the SPI link to the knock sensor chip and it will constantly grab data from the selected knock sensor(s) and report back when it determines knock has been found. selecting between 1 and 2 knock sensors is as simple as sending a slightly different command over the SPI link. if one were to know where the SPI data is written to in the program, you could probably see an option bit selecting between 1 and 2 sensors...

After I finally learned how to really disassemble that code, I then realized HOW much work that will take. I respectfully gave up that project knowing it would be years of study.

Even with basic programming knowledge it was a massive headache.



I'll see what I can come up with Eric.

[ericjon262]

I have a 3800 5 speed bin now, it looks as though both bin files have the same trouble codes available, but the trouble codes turned on are not the same, could adding bank to bank o2's be as simple as turning on a trouble code?

edit: actually, there are a few trouble code missing here and there, but all of the o2 sensor codes are there in the 60V6 bin.

edit again:



P0243 Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid A Malfunction

http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/

hmmmm



edit(a third time):

it's also interesting to see codes like p307 and p308... misfire detected cyl 7&8...



edit(lol):

I see the knock sensor codes in there too...

should I keep listing edit??

oh well

Edit:


in tiny tuner:

Configuration>Main>o2 sensor config for PID 13

change value to 21 to match 3800 f body with dual o2's?

Edit(oh shit... now I'm editing my edits...) 1998 GTP bin uses "3" like our 60V6, I know PID 13 defines o2 sensor reading, but I don't see specifics... I would be willing to bet changing that value would enable bank 2 o2 sensors.


if you have any info on PID 13, it would be helpful, there's not a whole lot of info through a google search, and the tuning forums I've been on have no mention of it.

[TGP37]

Here is what I know so far......

Using HPT Beta, the 97v6 controller w/ OSID 9355440

In the Open & Closed Loop tab, there is an option for 1 or 2 bank o2 sensor config. But only available in the Beta version. I don't know where that would be in Tiny Tuners. The option above, Exhaust Config, is straight or dual out. I suppose that controls how many downstream O2's are used. As 1 bank straight or y is 1 rear o2. But 2 sensors upfront can have 1 or 2 rear o2's if there are twin or single catalytics used.



I also noticed there are 3 sensors among 2 banks in the DTC list.

bank 1 sensor 1
bank 1 sensor 2
bank 1 sensor 3

bank 2 sensor 1
bank 2 sensor 2
bank 2 sensor 3

What could possibly be the 3rd sensor? Could that be a wideband capable input? Dual O2 per bank?

I can understand 2 sensors per bank with 2 banks. So I hope I helped but I think I probably introduced more questions then I tried to help answer, lol.



EDIT: Possibly look up people throwing DTC p0151 (or other bank2s1 codes) to find which GM vehicles have dual front o2's. Then find out which ones use the same type of PCM. Then it is just a matter of getting the wire diagrams and pin outs for that particular vehicle.

I am finding Chevy Silverado 2002 with the 5.3l as throwing p0151. It might be a big block thing. It might be a truck thing, I really don't know atm. But I am interested as well, i also want twin o2's and hopefully have twin catalytics down the road.

[caffeine]

Is it ok to have O2 sensors pre-turbo? I always thought for some reason they should be post-turbo, in which case you would only need one narrowband anyway.

[ericjon262]

Is it ok to have O2 sensors pre-turbo? I always thought for some reason they should be post-turbo, in which case you would only need one narrowband anyway.

I don't think it is ok to run pre turbo o2's, I was just sharing my insights. on a twin turbo car though you could use dual o2's.

@ TGP37 I think is has less to do with the DTC's and more to do with the PID.

[TGP37]

You can use NBO2 pre-turbo, they just fail sooner as far as I can tell. Though I did use a pre-turbo NBO2 for 3 months, spirited driving of course. I didn't notice any major changes in operation. But then, it was only 3 months of driving. I changed manifold details.

Yeah Eric, though with DTC's, if a NBO2 sensor is turned off it can't report to any inquiring device (for inspection and I suspect the PCM Bus). But turning no reporting keeps it operational but not responsive. I wonder how much the DTC list has command over functionality of such systems.

IIRC, a PID is a variable, not a hardware thing.

Gotta run but I want to continue this topic later.

[ericjon262]

You can use NBO2 pre-turbo, they just fail sooner as far as I can tell. Though I did use a pre-turbo NBO2 for 3 months, spirited driving of course. I didn't notice any major changes in operation. But then, it was only 3 months of driving. I changed manifold details.

Yeah Eric, though with DTC's, if a NBO2 sensor is turned off it can't report to any inquiring device (for inspection and I suspect the PCM Bus). But turning no reporting keeps it operational but not responsive. I wonder how much the DTC list has command over functionality of such systems.

IIRC, a PID is a variable, not a hardware thing.

Gotta run but I want to continue this topic later.

you can edit the PID in tiny tuner, I was just meaning that I don't think turning the code on will make bank to bank active, I think you can only activate it by changing the PID settings.

[TGP37]

Ahh, I see what you meant.

Seriously though, look up what GM vehicles toss any DTC code for the 2nd O2 sensor. P0151, P0152, P0153, P0154, P0155. Weed out the ones that might apply and then we can dig up some pin outs. Maybe apply 0.7v to the suspected pinout and see if DHP or HPT can pick up on the signal for the B1S2 O2.

If you have a spare PCM, you could apply 0-1v to each blank pin while logging the vehicle (not running though, key on) and see which one triggers the S1B2 O2 data signal to jump. If none trigger it then it must be activated. This test would rule out the need to activate it or not in order to log it.

I've been quietly looking into this as well for the last few days. If and when I do find something, I'll definitely pass it on.



EDIT: I learned once the PCM looks for a ground in the heater circuit for the presence of an O2 sensor, determines if closed loop is possible. I suppose it may be logical to assume a second bank O2 may operate the same way. If the PCM detects a ground in the heater circuit (meaning it is plugged in).

Or however the PCM determines if there is an O2 present, the same should apply to the second. Then it should be just a matter of wiring it up and letting the PCM determine. Because activating open loop and closed loop will turn on the 2nd bank O2 with the 1st bank....or just the 1st bank on single systems.

[ericjon262]

Ahh, I see what you meant.

Seriously though, look up what GM vehicles toss any DTC code for the 2nd O2 sensor. P0151, P0152, P0153, P0154, P0155. Weed out the ones that might apply and then we can dig up some pin outs. Maybe apply 0.7v to the suspected pinout and see if DHP or HPT can pick up on the signal for the B1S2 O2.

If you have a spare PCM, you could apply 0-1v to each blank pin while logging the vehicle (not running though, key on) and see which one triggers the S1B2 O2 data signal to jump. If none trigger it then it must be activated. This test would rule out the need to activate it or not in order to log it.

I've been quietly looking into this as well for the last few days. If and when I do find something, I'll definitely pass it on.



EDIT: I learned once the PCM looks for a ground in the heater circuit for the presence of an O2 sensor, determines if closed loop is possible. I suppose it may be logical to assume a second bank O2 may operate the same way. If the PCM detects a ground in the heater circuit (meaning it is plugged in).

Or however the PCM determines if there is an O2 present, the same should apply to the second. Then it should be just a matter of wiring it up and letting the PCM determine. Because activating open loop and closed loop will turn on the 2nd bank O2 with the 1st bank....or just the 1st bank on single systems.

we already know which pins they are based on the 3800 pinouts, I went ahead and posted the pinout directly to the thread, that leaves it all up to the programming side of things.

[TGP37]

Ahh nice, did you try allowing the PCM to go closed loop with the second O2 wired up? It may be plug n play IF the 1st O2 is configured to turn on. Because I can't find a temp setting for closed loop bank 2. Which I gather the 2nd O2 is activated when the primary upstream is. To some degree a lot of the settings for the primary upstream I assume is shared with the 2nd primary.

However, noting the file I have has a setting to activate the 2nd O2......and a setting to determine how many downstream O2's.

If HPT allowed me to save in Bin format then I could easily pin point the setting in a binary editor.


Edit: I do believe there are still tables Tiny Tuner doesn't list, but not many. TT is open ended so you can learn to insert new tables you discover in a binary editor of some kind.