Confused about Maf tables

[Weatheralls Auto]

I have a Maf from a 1999 Montana that I will be using with the 2001 3400 Impala Pcm on my 3500 engine.

So I examined both bin files from the 99 Mont and 01 Imp.

The Maf tables are different and have been told I need to use the ones for the Maf itself (99 Montana)

In PT, which tables do I need to use?

Maf_Airflow_Table ? or All of them.

ones like Maf_Max_Positive_Airflow_Change are vary different (99 montana has number from 1.5 to 5 and the 01 Impala has all 500)

Or in Tiny Tuner I see all these tables,
Which or all to I Transfer to the 01 Maf table?

MAF
Default Mass Airflow (gm/sec) vs TPS vs RPM
MAF Airflow Table
MAF Failure Airmass Calc Mode
MAF Max Negative Airflow Change
MAF Max Positive Airflow Change
Maximum Cylinder Air Mass
Maximum Delta Airflow
Maximum MAF Frequency
Minimum MAF Frequency
Speed Density MAF Compensation vs Baro
Speed Density MAF Compensation vs ECT
Volumetric Efficiency

I think I have exported both Maf correctly with Tiny Tuner (first time so not 100% sure)

One is the 99 Montana and the other is the 01 Impala,
What do I need to take from the Montana Maf (Maf sensor I am using) and Import into the 01 Impala (the Pcm I am using) ?

[robertisaar]

the max/min frequency charts should probably be taken from known whatever the MAF came from, and obviously the MAF airflow table itself, but everything else seems to be a sanity check based on the engine... they seem like delta tables, which would be dependant on the engine, except for maximum cylinder air mass... not sure what that's implying.

[Weatheralls Auto]

This is what I am thinking.
Just wanting it to run as best as possible on first start up.

I have a feeling tuning the MAF once she is road worthy is going to be fun lol.

[3400-95-Modified]

Is a Montana MAF different than an Impala one? You might just be seeing the differences they used to get the same result. I see that in spark tables and also in AE management, They kept changing how they accomplished one thing... for instance some use AE mph modifiers heavily, others have a set number and the AE table itself is modifed.... its weird to follow but you may want to try the 01 info if the maf's are the same, which if I'm not mistaken they should be.

I just checked, your only seeing differences in how they programmed the ECM... and possibly the tune to get the best emissions on the vehicle. I would say to leave the 01 info there.

These are the cars that a 99 Montana MAF fits... Its the same one as mine.

Buyer's Guide: DELPHI AF10045 Mass Air Flow Sensor
ACURA SLX (1998 - 1999)
BUICK CENTURY CUSTOM (1997 - 2005)
BUICK CENTURY LIMITED (1997 - 2005)
BUICK CENTURY SPECIAL EDITION 2005
BUICK REGAL CUSTOM (1994 - 1996)
BUICK RENDEZVOUS (2002 - 2005)
BUICK ROADMASTER (1994 - 1996)
BUICK ROADMASTER ESTATE (1994 - 1995)
BUICK ROADMASTER LIMITED (1994 - 1996)
BUICK ROADMASTER LIMITED WAGON 1996
BUICK SKYLARK 1998
BUICK SKYLARK CUSTOM (1996 - 1997)
BUICK SKYLARK GRAN SPORT (1996 - 1997)
BUICK SKYLARK LIMITED (1996 - 1997)
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD (1994 - 1996)
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD BROUGHAM (1994 - 1996)
CHEVROLET ASTRO (1996 - 2005)
CHEVROLET BERETTA 1996
CHEVROLET BERETTA Z26 1996
CHEVROLET BLAZER (1996 - 2005)
CHEVROLET BLAZER TRAILBLAZER (1999 - 2001)
CHEVROLET CAPRICE 1994
CHEVROLET CAPRICE CLASSIC (1994 - 1996)
CHEVROLET CAPRICE CLASSIC LS 1994
CHEVROLET CAPRICE LS 1994
CHEVROLET CORSICA 1996
CHEVROLET IMPALA (2000 - 2005)
CHEVROLET IMPALA SS (1994 - 1996)
CHEVROLET LUMINA (1995 - 2001)
CHEVROLET LUMINA APV 1996
CHEVROLET LUMINA EURO 1994
CHEVROLET LUMINA LS (1995 - 1997)
CHEVROLET LUMINA LTZ (1997 - 1998
CHEVROLET LUMINA Z34 1994
CHEVROLET MALIBU (1997 - 2003)
CHEVROLET MALIBU LS (1997 - 2003)
CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO 1999
CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO LS (1995 - 2005)
CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO Z34 (1995 - 1997)
CHEVROLET S10 PICKUP (1996 - 2004)
CHEVROLET VENTURE (1997 - 2004)
CHEVROLET VENTURE LS 2005
CHEVROLET VENTURE LT 2005
CHEVROLET VENTURE PLUS 2005
GMC JIMMY (1996 - 2005)
GMC JIMMY ENVOY (1998 - 2001)
GMC JIMMY SLS (2002 - 2004)
GMC SAFARI (1998 - 2005)
GMC SAFARI XT (1996 - 1997)
GMC SONOMA (1996 - 2004)
HONDA PASSPORT EX (1998 - 2002)
HONDA PASSPORT LX (1998 - 2002)
ISUZU AMIGO (1998 - 2000)
ISUZU AXIOM (2002 - 2003)
ISUZU RODEO (1998 - 2004)
ISUZU RODEO SPORT (2001 - 2003)
ISUZU TROOPER (1998 - 2002)
ISUZU VEHICROSS (1999 - 2001)
OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA (1996 - 1998
OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA SC (1996 - 1997)
OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA SL (1996 - 1997)
OLDSMOBILE ALERO (1999 - 2004)
OLDSMOBILE AURORA (2001 - 2002)
OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA (1996 - 2001)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS (1997 - 1999)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS GLS 1997
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME (1994 - 1997)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME S (1993 - 1994)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME SL (1995 - 1997)
OLDSMOBILE INTRIGUE (1999 - 2002)
OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE (1996 - 2004)
PONTIAC AZTEK (2001 - 2005)
PONTIAC AZTEK GT 2001
PONTIAC AZTEK RALLY 2004
PONTIAC GRAND AM (1999 - 2004)
PONTIAC GRAND AM GT (1996 - 2005)
PONTIAC GRAND AM GT1 2005
PONTIAC GRAND AM SE (1996 - 2005)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GT (1995 - 1996)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GTP (1995 - 1996)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX SE (1994 - 2003)
PONTIAC MONTANA (1999 - 2005)
PONTIAC MONTANA SV6 (2005 - 2006)
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT (1996 - 1998
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT MONTANA 1998

[Weatheralls Auto]

Sweet, THANX!

So it should start and run decently (I hope) then do the rest of my tuning once we are ready.

I have removed Trans Dtcs and torque management and fuel cut offs, install is getting closer

[3400-95-Modified]

Yeah you'll probably be fine. I've had my biggest issues with the IFR more than anything else... If thats off badly then you will basically flood the hell out of your motor. My car will not start with my current injectors and pump with a factory 96 IFR in there... it just can't start... lol

Make sure you get rid of every DTC you need to, and for emissions ones be sure to only change the reporting ones to no reporting, NOT the enabled section... otherwise your tests and readyness will not pass. I have mine setup so its ready to pass at key on, nothing needs to run after a flash... so I will pass OBDII tests every time and I don't even have a second O2 sensor, and my EGR isn't hooked up.

[Weatheralls Auto]

I am trying to keep all emissions and accessories.
Not for any reason ATM other than most do not, and I want to show I CAN lol.

I am hoping I will be close on my IFR, Stock for the 01 3400 was 371 with #22.5 @ 55psi
I am using #36 from GTP at 50psi, so my calculation was
Convert 36 @ 50psi to 55psi = 37.7571
22.5/37.7571 =.5959
371 * .5959 = 221
So I have my IFR @ 221
How that will effect the 3500 now is the main question lol

[Weatheralls Auto]

I see ur running a Hybrid, curious to see that file,
here is my initial one, I am sure to have to make many changes once she is running.

[3400-95-Modified]

Mine a mess right now and I'm sure its nothing like yours due to my cam, I'm also expecting to have to tweak it a lot once back together due to porting work I've done.

Let me get my laptop out and I'll post it up.

attached my most recent from last year, It has SOME VE work done to it... I need to re-do that this year since I know last year's was not spot on.

[geldartb]

I am trying to keep all emissions and accessories.
Not for any reason ATM other than most do not, and I want to show I CAN lol.

I am hoping I will be close on my IFR, Stock for the 01 3400 was 371 with #22.5 @ 55psi
I am using #36 from GTP at 50psi, so my calculation was
Convert 36 @ 50psi to 55psi = 37.7571
22.5/37.7571 =.5959
371 * .5959 = 221
So I have my IFR @ 221
How that will effect the 3500 now is the main question lol

thats how i came up with my IFR. but for me the injectors i had in there and the ones i swapped to(newer style) are at the same 43.5 psi so all i did was

19/34.5=.5507
410*.5507=225.787

as far as emission stuff goes everything that came from the factory is still there minus the rear o2.

i did the stuff for the emission monitor readiness and my car passed fine.

[3400-95-Modified]

My Emissions stuff is still there yes, I just shut the codes off so they would pass immediately and I would not have to do a driving cycle. And I think right now the EGR may be re-enabled... I'm not sure where I left it.

IIRC the EGR would pass fine, but I needed 3 things to be ready, and I had EGR and Oxygen sensor passed... I couldn't get Catalyst or Oxygen Sensor Heater to pass since I had the second O2 missing, once I disabled reporting on all of the codes that had to do with those tests then it showed up Ready as soon as I turned the key on, so I did the same to the EGR codes so I wouldn't have to worry about that either.

I still have a Cat too, and I know the year before it passed when they did the pipe sniff since thats an acceptable substitute for the ECM not being ready, BUT only once... the next time you return the ECM has to show up ready.

So even with my radical setup it passes emissions standards. I just don't feel like drilling a hole for the second O2 since those are very expensive and die to easily.

[Weatheralls Auto]

Around here everyone like to disable and remove lol.

So you guys with the 3500/3400 Hybrids (both with TCE 65mm TB aswell)

You stuck with the standard IFR (adjusting for larger injectors though) and didn't have a probs since now your engine had so much more flow?

Guess the Maf handled the extra flow?

I am getting pumped for the install.

Though have been looking for a certain Bellhouing stud for a few days, finally found one, cleaned it up and went to see how it would work, a customer walked in and startled me.

The Dayum stud went straight in the drain lol. GONE

[3400-95-Modified]

What do you mean stuck with the standard IFR but adjusted for larger injectors? thats a contradiction. I did the same math as you did to get the proper numbers for my IFR so it wouldn't flood out. IIRC my stock numbers in the 96 ecm were in the 400ms area, now in my 97 ECM I'm down in the 200's since I went from stock 16lb/hr setup to my 28lb/hr setup

After that yes the MAF is able to be scalled up enough to compensate for the flow... N/A you'll never reach the max hertz level the maf can support so you should always be able to properly scale it and adjust it to make your trims correct.

[Weatheralls Auto]

Ya it was a contradiction lol, couldn't word it correctly.

Guess what I was trying to ask is;
You stuck with the standard calculations for your IFR and did NOT make any changes to it due to having the 3500 top end.
Mainly relied on Maf to compensate for the extra flow.

I know what I want to say/ask but at times it does not flow correctly to my fingers lol.

[3400-95-Modified]

Correct, thats the proper way to do it... because when you change other things your chaining air flow.

Think of the IFR as a set value that everything uses to get the correct result, so unless your using some special injector flow tool to measure you ACTUAL flow rate then its best to use the one you get from the math. If you think about it unless your changing the fuel pressure or something like that the actual IFR should never change... Yes you may want to try to do the math and scale it down through the multiple MAP tables (if available in your bin) since at a lower MAP level you have higher VAC which results in a lower fuel pressure... That will make it sometimes easier to adjust large injectors, BUT other than that you should be using VE an MAF tables to dial everything else in.

Proof of this is with the heads up displays on some GP's... if you adjust your IFR instead of your MAF and VE tables your MPG reading and your estimated mileage will not show up right. It uses the IFR and you Injector pulse rate to figure out how much fuel your are flowing through the engine... so if thats been tweaked because of a low VE or MAF table, then your numbers would be off.