Tuning my 3500!

[PCGUY112887]

PE is enabled, has been since I did my VE.

[scott0999]

k sounds good. try and get the fuel trims close yes, but I wouldnt spend a lifetime trying to get them perfect. they can be off a few points and you wont notice any difference/it doesnt really matter that much.

if it is lean, it will lock that fuel trim at WOT anyways, and skew the fueling by how much it was lean.

[IsaacHayes]

Stock air box won't make you have KR, unless you can knock from lack of air... The stock air box pulls in cold air... better than a cone in the engine bay.. Just mod it open for more flow and add some extra snorkels off of it with an K&N drop in.

[3400-95-Modified]

You never want a locked ft value in PE mode PERIOD. you want it to be zero.

Now the fact that your going lean at WOT leads to believe you have some other major issue. My car is a similar build to yours, Stage 1 milzy cam, 3500 top end I just have a 3400 lower, I have headers, and a CAI... Now yeah I have about .040" less of lift... approx... but your car should still not be going into 14 to 15:1 in PE mode... something is MAJORLY wrong. And since you didn't scan your O2 mv or Injector PW I can't even tell you where to start.

I have not had this issue with my car at all... I've always been in the up wards of 850 to 890 mv at the o2 and I know they have said 840 or so is good for n/a, where 940 or so is good for a boosted motor.

But you have something else going on if your going that lean at WOT. First thing I really suggest is to start with a stock bin file. Get rid of that 1.5 you'll be chasing your tail with that all day long.

[PCGUY112887]

Why do you keep insisting the 1.5 file is bad? It has transmission changes and fan changes... that's about it.

[IsaacHayes]

Don't they add in a bunch of extra spark timing though?

[PCGUY112887]

Not sure... they describe it as a tune to get ya started, removes the speed limiter, sets up the fans, does shifts, etc. Standard crap. I highly doubt they would throw a bunch of extra timing on there since that would just cause problems on a stock motor.

Also I was to understand that the stock narrowband was horribly inaccurate at WOT and should never be trusted? All of me saying "rich" and "lean" is going by what my wideband tells me. If you look at the scans, the computer thinks it's around 12:1 at WOT, it's the wideband that says different.

I can try going back to a regular bin file but I have a feeling it won't matter. I could always try to copy the changes I want to keep out of the 1.5 and stick them in an original BIN...

[z34phoenix]

well one issue is with your air_temp_spark table... at near and at WOT they are modifying your spark with that. its commanding 1* of additional timing across the board.

yes the stock narrow band isnt all that great but its consistant enough to be a good tuning aid.... and since your WB isnt being logged... it is much better then nothing. i have all my tuning done via the narrow and not only are the trims on point, but have Zero KR, trims at Zero when WOT... ect.

keep the MAF tuning up. my suggestion is to pull .5* of timing where you are seeing that KR or to boost the MAF table in those areas... well save the pulling timing until later if you still see if after the MAF tunes.

I recently heard that you can use the EGR input to read your WB if you dont have the egr in use! anyone do this? im really tempted to try this... cause i might be getting my hands on a WB soon!


following are probs with the 1.5 that i disagree with:
-KR recovery rate... too fast in the lower RPM range
-air temp spark... you werent ready for any timing changes just yet
-Stock PE enable % is way too high i feel 70%? wth?

i just went a head and did a few changes to the bin... here is what i changed for the most part:
-used eddies program to do a maf tune
-adj your PE enable 45%
-leveled out your open loop AF vs ECT (makes tuning more consistant)
-reset your air_temp_spark to stock
-EGR temp disable was above max value! was 482 max value is 284... somone is dislexic.
-KR recovery rate set more conservative
following are recomendations:
-did not change but feel you might be able to lower your idle another 50 rpm but depending on your cam you might not...
-if your runing a 180* Tstat i would lower your fan temps 5-10*
-im hoping this is a 4t65e cause the TM settings are bumped up higher then i would in my 60e.

ok here is the bin i have come up with.... this is only recomended changes i by runing this bin you assume all responicbilities for consiquenses.

obviously you will need to reset the fuel trims and do more MAF tunes to get everything dialed in. but i feel this file is a better foundation for your tune. i did not make any trany table changes. im not familier with the 65e and nor the gearing you are runing... hopfully another member can assit you more here.

[scott0999]

You never want a locked ft value in PE mode PERIOD. you want it to be zero.

oh I know im just saying if its off a couple points its not a huge issue.

its just like on OBD 1 if the BLM (same thing as LTFT) is above 128 (128 being 0 in OBD2 terms) its not like your going to blow the motor. hell, I've had it at 137 and it was still rich at WOT.

because like I was saying the ECM knows to add however much fuel it was lean by prior to WOT, and if its just a couple points its no biggie.

im not trying to say use that as an "autotuning" method though

its just that trying to make the fuel trims dead on at all RPM and MAP/MAF cells can take literally forever, and theres other ways you can "tune around" <-- as much as I hate saying that, it

[3400-95-Modified]

Your looking at commanded A/F not current.

the A/F pid is what the ECM is trying to reach you need to scan O2 mv to actually see what your getting.

I think you need to spend a little more time reading up on the powrtuner board on what gauges you should have running to see what you want. Bottom line 14:1 or 15:1 at WOT on a wideband is going to equal a blown motor soon, and there is something really wrong.

I also say stay away from the 1.5 file because the stuff they change shouldnt really be done untill you get your base tune down. Order of stuff is typically fuel trims, WOT O2's, then spark, then trans, and so on...

But thats just what I have been told.

[PCGUY112887]

Your looking at commanded A/F not current.

Ah OK! The PT just says "AF Ratio" so I figured it was whatever the narrowband was reading, makes since.

Apparently if I run 1.2.3 software, the wideband logging will work fine. I will do that today, along with injector pw and mv.

I am also moving back to the original file, transporting all of my MAF and VE data and such over to it.

-adj your PE enable 45%
-EGR temp disable was above max value! was 482 max value is 284... somone is dislexic.
-if your runing a 180* Tstat i would lower your fan temps 5-10*
-im hoping this is a 4t65e cause the TM settings are bumped up higher then i would in my 60e.

-Is that really ok to just make all PE enable to 45%? Just seems odd...
-EGR temp was set to 250 since I have no EGR, this is what DHP told me to do when disabling EGR.
-Nope I got a stock 195 tstat
-This is a stock 4t60e, only mod on it is an adjustable vac modulator for harder shifts. Every single one of those transmission values is what DHP gave me.

Bottom line 14:1 or 15:1 at WOT on a wideband is going to equal a blown motor soon, and there is something really wrong.

I don't see what could be so wrong? What did you do with yours? The 3500 or even the 3400 with a 3500 top end is going to use a ton more fuel vs an old style 3400. Surely you had to do some major fueling corrections. Now you have me afraid to go WOT to even get more data. Even at low RPM's when I first started my LTFT's would get to 30+ all the way up to 4k (which is where I noticed the computer just stopped adding fuel it's self and the wideband just showed max lean).

[z34phoenix]

normal AF at wot is about 12.5

on the GTP motors they say to lower PE enable % to 30. on my 96Z stock was 45% and now i have it about 27.5% to match my shift table.

having the enable at the same % also helps tuning cause PE will come in at the same point while tuning so you can get your fueling taken care of.

i dont know everyone elses opinion, but i would deff recomend a 180* thermostat. here in florida i run a 160 cause with my 180 my fans were on a lot. the 160 minimizes the fan times and keeps my ECT where i need it. but the cooler Tstat will also help keep KR down by cooling the engine better.

as for the EGR temp... you must have had the units set to *C then cause when i opend it in my PT it read 482* and that was outside the units for that table. make sure you correct this in your new bin

[3400-95-Modified]

all that I did to mine is do a VE tune and then I went into the MAF tune. I never had such a low mv level on my O2 sensor... I think the worst I EVER saw was like a blip of 760 a few times when WOT, but it was constant 860's+

Hell last time I went to the dragway I was pulling 900-920... so I was way too rich.

and a 3500 is not going to use WAY much more fuel, its not that drastic. I did add about 10-15% to the top of my VE table during the tune but it wasnt that insaine. My PE is set for stock values that I have from the venture file.

I don't know what your problem is but something just isnt right. Hell I'm using #28 injectors and those are smaller than what you have.

[PCGUY112887]

Actually I am using the DOHC injectors (which are #24 I believe) at 55psi to make them #26.5ish.

Maybe I need to check if the FPR that was sent to me REALLY is a 55psi one. If not, that would explain my issues since I have the IFR calculated out for a #26.5 injector.

[3400-95-Modified]

10 psi drop shouldnt cause that much of an issue... but it could be part of it.

IIRC you said before you touched your MAF table you were getting 18+ on the wide band...

I'm gonna go take a run this afternoon with 3 ve tunes and the maf plugged in with a stock MAF table, and everything else stock minus shift tables for my 3.33 trans. I'll post up that scan so you can see my O2 mv levels.