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**Guest** · 10-09-2015, 09:30 PM

Well, there's a problem with what you propose, and that is that the Beretta bin does not support the 2 BAR MAP that you should be using with this set-up, so you're best to use the TGP bin, since it supports boost.

As far as the AC and other things you mention the TGP bin should have no problem there, although you may need to change some wiring, but that will take comparing the wiring diagrams of the two cars. Cruise is independent of the ECM, but might use a vehicle speed output from it, not a big deal, since the ECM should have an output for this, if it doesn't there will be a work around, again compare wire diagrams.

The length of intercooler piping will have no negative effect on idle quality. The amount of air needed at idle is very small and the volume of air inside the intercooler piping, even undersized intercooler piping will not cause idle quality issues. The idle quality issues are likely coming from the mismatch of MAP sensor to the bin you're using. There might also be some other mechanical issues that you need to check out, like fuel pressure, and that all injectors are connected and working, along with spark quality.

If I were in your shoes though, I wouldn't use either of those bins, I would move over to $59, that has so many great enhancements over most other code. It has WBO2 fueling control, expanded fuel and spark tables and a bunch of other improvements. It does require a 3 BAR MAP sensor however. www.code59.org

If you don't want to go to a 3 BAR MAP sensor, you can use $58, which is what came in the Syclone/Typhoon/Turbo Sunbird/a couple other cars, and is what $59 is based on. It was originally used in the 1227749 ECM, but will work well in a 1227730 or 1227727, or any of the related variants of these 3 ECMs. I've used $58 on a vehicle and it was decent, but I missed many of the improvements that $59 offers.

What equipment and software are you using to tune the car?

**GHOSTOWLGRID** · 10-09-2015, 09:56 PM

I have the 2 bar map installed from the turbo grand prix. The Turbo Grand Prix EPROM in the Beretta ECM already runs the engine just fine at 11 PSI.
The main problem is, no air conditioning, no cruise control, no TCC, and the TGP code has a built in protection, it shuts off the boost above a certain KPA.
I had purchased an entire turbo grand prix that was rusted out and did the swap/mods into the beretta.

I have the TGP ECM, and shop manual to both cars. But I was hoping I could still use the Beretta ECM.

I have TunerPro RT, A burner, emulator, and data logger (APU1 auto prom unit from moates.net).
I have purchased blank re-flashable chips for the vehicle from moates.net as well.
They were helpful in selecting the correct hardware.

The idle was fixed. When I wrote that I made the error of thinking it was still a problem because the Beretta ECM failed earlier today and I since replaced it. Lost the injector pulses.

So you suggest code $58?
How would I go about correcting the TGP eprom code to operate the beretta ECM TCC, air conditioning, and cruise controller?
What would be a good code $58 bin for me to start working with?

I use Tuner pro, I have xdf files I downloaded from tuner pro website for both cars/bins.
I tried using a hex editor, I don't know where to start in hex, so I just left it.

Edit: Where exactly is the Code 58 bins?

**Guest** · 10-09-2015, 10:13 PM

I'd have to look at the diagrams, which I really don't have time to do right now, I'm behind on a bunch of projects as it is, but all of those things you mention work fine in other cars using the TGP code. I'm pretty sure the TGP code runs a TCC as well, so that may just need a pin change at the ECM, or a setting changed, but I have never had much luck with the TGP code, the definitions that are available are sparse on items to say the least and there was no GM offered manual trans code, so that really doesn't work for me, since all of my turbo vehicles have been manual. The only thing I can see effecting the cruise is the VSS output, which may require changing some hardware, such as installing a DRAC or maybe also just a pin swap away. Air conditioning can be run stand alone, and maybe that's how the TGP was wired, again, verify by looking at wiring diagrams for both vehicles and comparing differences.

The easy fix in my eyes would be $58, since it means you don't have to buy another MAP sensor. It has manual capable code, which isn't a concern for you, but it;s worth mentioning if someone else is in a similar boat and reading this, and is pretty well defined in the definitions as well, MUCH better than the TGP code is anyway.

You can use either code you have (and $5

in your Beretta ECM, as long as its a 1227730 or one of its variants, which it should be.

There is ONE small issue with $58 and that is when using it with an Auto Prom. Yes, it's a VERY specific issue. There is a problem with the datastream when $58 is used in an Auto prom and attemting to emulate and datalog at the same time. There is a fix, but requires manually editing the bin file through the hex editor to set some values to make everything play together. The patch works, and works well, it actually makes communications work better when using other datalogging equipment as well. There is information and bins on gearhead-efi.com for many masks, but specifically $58. I believe I also patched the instructions on what to edit for the patch as well.

**GHOSTOWLGRID** · 10-09-2015, 10:24 PM

I am open to suggestions.

I will look on gearhead-efi.com and look for a Code $58 Bin that matches the 1227730 ECM number you said.

I know what wire it is to run the A/C stand alone, I already have a standalone fan control switch on the radiator. But I did that mostly for the drag strip staging lanes.
The TCC would be nice if it worked, but that can come last for now.

If I can get a good bin to start with, I should be able to modify the tune slowly.

EDIT:
I see adx files.
How do I use adx files with tuner pro and burning chips?
I tried using an adx file once before and the cars computer didn't like it.

Link to thread I am reading:

1227730 ECM information

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?330-1227730-ECM-information

*This is a work in progress* The 1227730 was used in many applications, including J-bodies (Cavalier and Sunbird), F-bodies (Camaro and Firebird) and others. There are many code masks used in this ECM depending on the application. $A1 and $88 were used with many FWD 6 cylinder applications. $8D was used in RWD applications most commonly in the F-body.

EDIT 2:
Using the bin and xdf files for Code $-5-D I have the following question:

There are 10 columns, is it bad if I up this to 19 columns in the edit XDF parameters for the main spark table?
This way it can read up through 190 instead of up through 100?

The turbo grand prix reads up through 190, the beretta reads up through 100.

**Guest** · 10-10-2015, 02:04 AM

You won't find a $58 bin FOR a '7730 , since that code was only ever used in the '7749 from GM, however, $58 works in the '7730, and related variants due to the hardware being very similar to the '7749.

The TGP code and $58 will both run electric fans no problem, and since you're now programming the ECM, you can do away with that manual fan controller and just lower the switch temps in the bin(s).

ADX files are for datalogging and need to match the code you are using. If you're using a Beretta bin, you need to use a matching ADX, if using the TGP bin you need a matching ADX, if using $58 you need a matching ADX, and these would be 3 different ADXs. The car has no idea what ADX you have loaded so there's really no way the car "didn't like" the ADX, except for the possibility that the ADX used MIGHT have, on a remote possibility triggered one of the secondary modes, such as forcing certain actuators to activate, but I highly doubt that happened. ADX is the newer version of what used to be called an ADS in Tuner pro version prior to V5.

You can't just edit the XDF to add columns to it, well you CAN, but it won't do what you want it to do. You are not adding any capability to the bin, such as reading higher than 100 kpa, like you propose. What you will likely end up doing is changing other parameters without knowing what is being changed. The MAP sensor type (1 BAR, 2 BAR, etc) is hardcoded into the bin elsewhere, and takes hacking the bin to change that and that effects more than just the ability to read higher, there will be many other changes needed that have to do with compensation values and the like.

I'm not sure what "$-5-D" is, it's not something I'm familiar with, but AFAIK, you should have $88 or $A1 in the Beretta bin. To check you can open the bin in Tuner pro, and most coded have the Mask byte at the same place for these ECMs, which is location 0x08 BTW, and see what it shows there, like I said it should show 88, A1 or I think 6D is also a possibility.

**robertisaar** · 10-10-2015, 01:09 PM

5D? Aussie application?

**GHOSTOWLGRID** · 10-10-2015, 02:16 PM

I think I meant code 58, your posts converted it to a smiley face, I thought it was 5d or something, I think its 58?

I will try to use the code 58, Still don't know what the adx or ads is used for or how to use it.
I'll try to figure it out.

So how would I go about adding the capability to read above the 100 kpa without blindly changing the xdf to do so, Like you said, it doesnt add capability to the bin, I have to do more to make it effective. and make it properly read within the bin file somehow?

**robertisaar** · 10-10-2015, 02:44 PM

are you running a digital cluster or something? if the speedo was off, just changing the VSS pulse divisor would have changed it.

a N/A MPFI 60V6 1990 car SHOULD have a $88 calibration with a few exceptions(the cars without digital EGR are 6D).

if you want it running without too much rework, the TGP calibration should be ~95% there already. keep in mind stock TGP injectors have issues and the crossover WILL leak and throw off fuel trims until new flex sections are welded in. the early w-body switch-based A/C system may require a workaround for you to get it functional in a beretta. cruise isn't effected by the ECM unless no VSS signal from the ECM to cluster occurs. the boost cutoff threshold is able to be changed in the calibration.

I really need to setup a nAst1 BIN for a stock TGP engine, 8F does have some quirks that were revised with later code.

**GHOSTOWLGRID** · 10-10-2015, 03:27 PM

The ECM says 1227730 on it.

I believe it is a $88 for the beretta.

I have the 90 tgp bin, it works great as far as being tuned for boost and power, however it does not work to well at idle.

The beretta ECM code runs great at idle, but wont run great at boost.

I will probably try to bring the beretta code into the tgp code and run my AC with a switch instead of bringing the tgp into the beretta like I have been trying to do.
Not sure about the TCC control on the TGP bin file, I might just go without it if I can't get it to work.

EDIT:
I am having trouble finding the 1227730 code $58 bin and xdf files that with with the 2 bar map.
Can someone help point me in the correct direction?

**Guest** · 10-10-2015, 10:54 PM

Instead of trying to move values from one BIN to the other, just tune the bin to run better. Some calculations and contributing values will likely be different enough to make values from one BIN not work as well in another BIN, even though they are similar engines.

TGP code has TCC control, on the '7727 it's pin B7, but that should automatically (in my experience) line up with the stock pin of the '7730 when the code is swapped. The problem here is that the vehicle speed is likely not being read correctly and therefore the TCC will not function. Once you get the speed reading correctly then you will likely get the TCC working.

ADX or ADS files are using for datalogging. Are you not datalogging currently using the AutoProm? If you are, haw are you doing it? ADX (used in Tuner Prop V5, whihc is the most likely version for you to have ) is MANDATORY for datalogging, or "Data Acquisition".

To modify an originally 1 BAR MAP BIN to work with a 2 BAR MAP takes a lot of intricate knowledge of assembly language and being able to reverse engineer the code and then change some parameters to make it function correctly, which is a HUGE waste of time when there is much better code available that will work with your current equipment.

Like I said before you will NOT find 1227730 SPECIFIC $58 BINs, they just don't exist. However the 1227730 and 1227749 are very close hardware wise and are directly drop in compatible between the two ECM service numbers, so you just use the $58 files (BIN, XDF and ADX) with your current ECM and tune it 'til it runs right. The fact that you have an emulator makes this much quicker than doing it the old school way of programming EPROMs over and over. But, like I said there's a patch that needs to be done to any $58 BIN that you use so that you CAN emulate and datalog at the same time when using an AutoProm. I know this information and all necessary files are on gearhead-efi.com. There are also some $58 files on code59.org.

**GHOSTOWLGRID** · 10-11-2015, 08:39 AM

Ok, I started working to adjusting the Grand Prix Bin to run it and see if I can make it work everything.
(I have the GTP ECM because I had the whole car to take parts from. I will probably mke an adapter and try using the TGP ECU in place of the beretta ECU to see how well it works.)
I improved the acceleration some. I bumped up the fuel for setting my boost regulator to about 13-14 PSI.
I tweaked the N/A spark for the engine to that of the N/A v6 and checked all the conversions to make sure it matched, that improved.

But this is all closed loop I think, because when its cold in open loop, it doesnt run as well.
The idle is still a problem with the TGP chip, it will stall unless I keep my foot on the gas pedal now and then.
It runs a bit ruch at idle, even though I adjusted the AFR and spark.

Its difficult because the TGP $8F bin and the $8F Complete xdf I have for it doesn't simply show a spark and afr table for open loop, in fact, there is no open loop info at all like the Beretta's bin and 88.xdf used. I don't understand how this TGP $8F bin distinguishes what to do for open loop then closed loop. Nothing says open loop.
But it has a couple open loop time settings, thats about it.

EDIT
Found out how to correct the cold engine afr and spark.
The thing still stalls at idle though.

I am looking into the IAC adjustments, however I have no idea how to fix these.

What are each of the settings in the photo I attached, and how do I understand hwo to adjust these to fix my stalling engine at idle in both open and closed loop?

Attached Files

**Guest** · 10-11-2015, 12:18 PM

I can tell you how using the TGP ECM will run, EXACTLY the same as the Beretta ECM, because they are the same ECM, internally. They just have different cases and connectors, since one is an under dash mount and one is an under hood mount. Don't waste your time with an adapter.

If you've increases the target boost table, put that back to stock for now. get the engine running well BEFORE trying to increase power.

I still think you have a mechanical problem, because if the engine is stock and ran well in the TGP, then there's ZERO reason it shouldn't run well in the Beretta, even using the Beretta ECM with the TGP MEMCAL.

Are you sure you have the 2 BAR MAP sensor installed? It should have an orange insert where the connector attaches (if it's an original GM MAP sensor). With the problems you describe and now thinking about the MAP sensor more thoroughly, the 2 BAR MAP sensor will not directly plug into the Beretta MAP sensor connector, due to the different in alignment tangs, to make sure that the correct MAP sensor is used for the application (when vehicles are not modified). You can either change the entire connector, or do as I do and modify the existing connector by cutting the needed slots into pin shrouds of the MAP sensor connector. When you modify the connector you can swap the MAP sensors back and forth if you swap back and forth between 1 BAR and 2 BAR bins, such as you are doing.

Don't worry about making any IAC adjustments, those are for advanced tuners that know exactly what they are doing and AFTER the engine runs decently. Most of the time those settings NEVER need touched.

How did you verify the calculations the two BINs use? If you compared the conversion is the XDF, that's not what the ECM uses to make final fuel and spark adjustments. The conversions in the XDF are simpley to convert the HEX or BINARY that the BIN is in into readable by human text as decimal.

There is usually never open and closed loop tables, as in tables that only get used under one condition or the other in GM ECMs, there are however open loop, or cold temp adjustment tables that will trim or add to the main VE and spark tables. As I said before I don't use $8F because of the lack of fully defined XDFs. There are more tables and parameters there, than what are in the XDFs, just no one has taken the time to find them and define them.

Find why it doesn't run well FIRST and FOREMOST, fix that THEN move onto tuning it. I really feel that you'll find that it's a mechanical or incorrect part issue, not something in the tuning and thinking more about how you describe it running I'm leaning towards incorrect MAP sensor. You've also never mentioned swapping the MAP sensor when you've switched between the Beretta BIN and the TGP BIN.

**GHOSTOWLGRID** · 10-11-2015, 01:47 PM

Yes I installed the 2 bar Map from the TGP. I checked it and it does have the orange insert.
I had to cut the plug on the Beretta to make the 2 Bar Map work.

Yes, the Beretta memcal runs the car in the beretta ECM with no boost without problem, no stalling, good N/A power, it works perfectly fine.

I plug in the TGP memcal into the Beretta ECM and put the boost limiter from a max of 0 PSI to a max of 13 PSI, and it has trouble idling, it stalls.
At idle, it has no boost anyways.
I verify with he scanner and it is correctly reading the 2 bar map.

I left the 2 bar map installed the whole time.

I'm not sure what the problem is as far as hardware, I have a scanner and I can't find anything that is broken.
All I can figure is the TGP memcal is looking for a sensor that the beretta wiring harness does not provide.

I did make a modification to the TGP memcal code (I have blank chips for the car, I burn my changes to a chip then test it) and I made it idle successfully in park/neutral, and I have it mostly idling in drive, sometimes it doesn't compensate for the transmission load and stumbles, but not to often.
If I turn on the engine fan and rear defogger, interior fa, etc; enough to make a load, it has a similar issue as in drive/reverse. Fails to load compensate and stalls. Sometimes it catches, but then it faults and goes rich AFR, and I have to restart it to get out of that.

Aside from the sometimes stalling while idling in drive, it has no trouble accelerating at 11 PSI.

EDIT:

Took a lot of effort, but I finally got it running without the SES light coming on.
I got the EGR from coming on, finally, It wouldn't shut off, then it got stuck full on and the car wouldnt run. (I have no physical EGR anyways, but the ECM got stuck thinking it was full open and I had to start over...)
160 degree can control, that was cake.

It finally idles in Park Neutral, the remote start can finally be used without problem.
It finally idles in Drive/Reverse, this was painful to setup. The TGP EPROM code was looking for something the TGP has on it that the beretta harness and ECM does not use or have at all. I somehow got around it. It finally works, but there it the chance to accidentally trigger it and the engine goes full idiot mode and runs full rich, only fix is to shut the engine off when it happens. Only happened once though.

I smoothed out the boost, the origional TGP code at any throttle enough to build boost, would build up to my max setting in PSI (About 13 PSI) right away, even at part throttle, and it was horrible because it caused hard shifting and sometimes confused the transmission.

I adjusted it so the PSI of the turbo is somewhat proportional to the engine, although it builds boost right away, a normal 1/4 to 1/3 acceleration will no longer cause me to have my 13 PSI right away, it builds and sits about 5-10 PSI, higher or lower depending on throttle.

At WOT, it goes full 13-14 PSI and it really hauls down the road. I estimate my 0-60 to be about 5-6 seconds at the most.

I still do not have the TCC working, I can't seem to figure this out...

However I can tell there is room for overall improvement, my spark is not ideal, my fuel is on the rich side.
Its finally good enough to drive without needing a tune immediately, and that is good because the only place near me willing to look into tuning my car doesn't know if they can do it successfully.

If anyone here knows of someone who can provide me with a refined tune for my car, That would be awesome.
I did find a guy who says he tuned over 300 TGP's, but I don't know if he still does it.

I attached my tune to this post.
If anyone wants to look at it and let me know how I can improve or fix it further, that would be awesome!

Aside from that, I am probably done for a while until a professional tune can be done, the only reason I might try this again is to attempt to make the TCC operational, but I don't know where the settings for the input/output control is.

Attached Files

**robertisaar** · 10-11-2015, 07:37 PM

if you were to post a log file(XDL), that would be helpful, so other people could see what you're seeing.

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