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  • nAst1: Progress and Concepts Thread

    well, since the 60V6 OBD1 crowd could benefit, i'll start a thread for my progress and for suggestions as to what could be done or better ways to do it.

    objectives of the nAst1 project: using a common as dirt ECM (1227727 in my case) to allow for the $A1 code to be more or less updated to allow it to better interact with engines of all varieties, including everything from low-revving iron dukes to northstars and nearly anything in between. one of my long-term goals is to control the cam phaser found on the 3500/3900 motors and the variable intake valve found on the 3900s, and have it work both consistently and actually allow it's full benefit.

    if possible, i'm looking to keep all of this within 1227727/1227730 capability, or at least the earlier revisions of the nAst1 code, though it may be inevitable to use the 16149396 for it's extra RAM, something some of my additions will need. it is possible(IIRC) to add the RAM module from a 9396 to a 7730, but the longer i can keep it unnecessary, the better, since it will alllow more people to benefit.



    current progress:

    1. the original VE tables in the A1 mask have been completely disabled, in their place, i have 3 VE tables(that have MAP increments of 5kPa from 20-100):
    Low VE from 400-2000 RPM in 100 RPM increments
    Mid VE from 2000-5200 RPM in 200 RPM increments
    High VE from 5200-8400 RPM in 200 RPM increments

    (insert pics here)

    since VE has always been calculated and stored as a single 8 bit variable, motors that can actually achieve above 100% VE would need to fudge their injector constant a bit, but the original A1 mask required this as well, and i don't feel that the VERY small number of motors that can do this is worth the potentially massive amount of time necessary to rewrite parts of the airflow calculation to deal with a 16-bit value.

    2. "VE Modifier when EGR Active vs RPM vs MAP" was an unnecessary table that was completely unused by all 4T60 equipped cars and seemed to be randomly filled for the vehicles that did use it, so it's now gone, freeing up some CPU cycles in the process. "VE Compensation for EGR Active", "Filter for VEEGRFAC" were used for dealing with these tables as well, they're gone now.

    3. "EGR Duty Cycle Multiplier vs EGR Duty Cycle" seemed to be unused by any factory calibration, and seems to only apply to the EVRV equipped vehicles anyway, seems to be a remnant of the $88 code that GM never removed. so, it was deleted to shave execution time as well.

    4. the pattern for the VE tables? they're also used for the new Main Spark tables. the "Main Spark Advance Table High RPM Breakpoint" and ">4800RPM Advance Added" values are also removed since they're no longer necessary and obviously, the A1 main spark advance table is gone now.




    future work:

    1. tracking oil pressure via spare A/D channels. i was wanting this since i like the idea of a low oil pressure fuel cutoff to save the motor in situations where oil pressure should drop to whatever level is determined to be unsafe. i'm thinking of an override switch for this as well, in case of a faulty sensor or emergency situations, like for some reason all pressure drops and the fuel cut kicks in while you're stopped on train tracks, etc....

    2. high coolant temp fuel cut: same as above, save the motor.

    3. fuel pressure... this one i'm not necessarily sold on, but it may be useful for someone else.

    4. alcohol sensor for fuel: and possibly using it to modify stoich and PE AFRs on the fly to keep your fuel trims in check without having to manually adjust for it.

    5. barometric sensor: using another MAP specifically for barometric use instead of having to rely on the MAP only with sufficient throttle to get an accurate reading.

    6. wideband reading, and possibly for closed loop fueling control: reading and displaying the wideband in the ALDL stream is dead simple, however, i'm looking into using it for closed loop fueling, much the same way the code59 team has done. ideally, i'd also have the prop gains eliminated, at least during tuning, afterwards use a rolling average to get an accurate reading of where the engine is running, similar to how the NB O2s are used now.

    7. traction control/torque limiter switch: i have quite a bit of thought into this one already, but simplified: the ECM will look at how long it took to go from one vehicle speed to the current speed. if there is too much change(determined by the user), then some spark is removed until the change is within a user-specified range, then advance will "slowly"(ECM version of slow is measured in mSec BTW ) be added back in until either too much change is registered again, or you're back to full advance. potentially useful for bracket racing, but i was more interested in traction on slick surfaces and being able to just floor the throttle and have just the smallest amount of tire spin until the engine no longer makes enough power to overpower the tires.

    8. PWM operation of the TCC: mainly for the later 4T60Es, though it MAY or may not work with a non-PWM TCC but i can't recommend it.

    9. some type of light/indicators... i have quite a few in mind, though not enough outputs available on a 7727 to do them all... lean cruise, torque limiting, knock retard, high injector duty cycle, cat overtemp, DFCO active.... may just allow for different options in the code and have the end-user select what they feel they like best.

    10. MAFs... now, the early 60V6 MPFI codes, $55 and i believe $46, actually used a MAF for fueling, however they were total failbus and crapped out constantly and GM recalled all of those vehicles and converted them to speed-density. i'm looking at modern MAFs(the kind that go to 10,000+ Hz) and possibly running steady-state fueling calcs with the MAF, leaving speed-density for AE/DE only since MAFs tend to fall behind there.

    11. valet switch, limiting vehicle/engine speed to something very conservative should a certain switch not be activated or be activated.

    12. PRNDL decoding for the OBD1.5 setups: this one is a bit of a thinker, but for the late 4T60E stuff, it can allow for running the trans VERY strictly, and potentially when combined with a switch (either code or physical), full manual control, aka brainless auto, useful for dyno/etc. it could also have a few other uses should they be thought of...

    13. brake switch based TCC disconnect: everything that came before the PWM operated 4T60Es had physical brake switches that would open the circuit that activated the TCC when the brake was pressed, however, the later stuff just used a brake switch as a signal, and cut the TCC via software.

    14. >6375 RPM shift points, even though they would probably be fairly damaging to whatever trans you have hooked up, no warranty.

    15. low oil level sensor/light, brought about due to OBD1.5->OBD1 conversions, i would rather have it since all of the clusters already have the light for it and the sensor exists, so why not.

    16. transaxle temp sensor, another OBD1.5 add-in, though it could be used should you add your own sensor...



    ok, that's enough for this post... comments/etc are welcome.
    1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
    Latest nAst1 files here!
    Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

  • #2
    I'm so going to need your brain power in the future... I'm thinking more along the lines of your $DF+$59=FTW project... I wish I had the patience and your brain power.
    -60v6's 2nd Jon M.
    91 Black Lumina Z34-5 speed
    92 Black Lumina Z34 5 speed (getting there, slowly... follow the progress here)
    94 Red Ford Ranger 2WD-5 speed
    Originally posted by Jay Leno
    Tires are cheap clutches...

    Comment


    • #3
      patience, yes, this can take quite some time.

      brain power: i learned(and am still learning) from some of the pioneers of the DIY OBD1 movement, luckily enough of them still hang around TGO for me to learn from.

      i also forgot about another of the goals, short-term one actually:

      17. air temp based spark advance modifier: for some reason GM did not add this into the code... i know i've experienced air temp dependant knock before, and i'll be damned if i have to compromise my tune due to air temp.
      1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
      Latest nAst1 files here!
      Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

      Comment


      • #4
        Still, what I wouldn't give to learn what you have already, but without the time you've put into it. Beam me up, Neo, lol.


        "I know kung-fu..." "Show me..." If only, that would rock.
        -60v6's 2nd Jon M.
        91 Black Lumina Z34-5 speed
        92 Black Lumina Z34 5 speed (getting there, slowly... follow the progress here)
        94 Red Ford Ranger 2WD-5 speed
        Originally posted by Jay Leno
        Tires are cheap clutches...

        Comment


        • #5
          oh, i know the feeling.... i'd like to know what other creative minds could come up with, given the same set of information...
          1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
          Latest nAst1 files here!
          Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

          Comment


          • #6
            9. Could be as simple as replacing the diode in the output circuit with an LED. There may need to be a change in the resistor if the light is too dim, and this is assuming this isn't a PWM output.

            For example, here's a typical output circuit:




            EDIT: you got that code for me? I've got a simple circuit built in multisim.
            Last edited by Jonpro03; 02-24-2011, 09:06 PM.

            1990 ASC/McLaren Turbo Grand Prix 3500 swap GT3076R turbo 40lb/hr injectors FMIC LX9 coils Megasquirt2 v3.0

            Comment


            • #7
              Definitely keeping my eye on this thread.
              -Brad-
              89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
              sigpic
              Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

              Comment


              • #8
                a bit off base there jon, i'm refering to things that the ECM doesn't "output" to the real world, all internal calcs and stuff like that.

                i did have the idea of running a little panel of LEDs in place of where the DIC would be in the wife's GP that are activated by the ECM grounding outputs, but that was more a cure for boredom than anything else and doesn't require any code/hardware mods.

                appreciate the thought though!

                i also just got done reading an artice joseph PM'd me while messaging about meth injection.... considering the ability to fire off meth injection when there is knock(or during some other event that might be beneficial), for whatever duration is deemed appropriate to cool down the combustion chamber... however, that MAY fool the O2 into thinking the motor is running extra rich(and lean out the motor, causing more knock) if operating in closed loop when that happens, so a temporary open loop event should probably happen during that time...

                and for a little while, i was considering looking into controlling pressure control solenoids... not too sure about that though.
                1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                Latest nAst1 files here!
                Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you have any spare pins on the processor, that's the hardware for an led output!

                  1990 ASC/McLaren Turbo Grand Prix 3500 swap GT3076R turbo 40lb/hr injectors FMIC LX9 coils Megasquirt2 v3.0

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by robertisaar View Post
                    i did have the idea of running a little panel of LEDs in place of where the DIC would be in the wife's GP that are activated by the ECM grounding outputs, but that was more a cure for boredom than anything else and doesn't require any code/hardware mods
                    Watch how many bells and whistles you put on it as far as lights, ect. When I got my Sony stereo, I about got in a few wrecks the first couple weeks cause I was drawn to it like a mosquito to a bug zapper...



                    On a side note (not to threadjack) I did just rule over my wifes old stereo that is now taking residence in the Ranger. It's one of the old Kenwood Mask series head units and the ribbon cable to the face had gone bad. I picked one up online for $8 + $7 S&H. It sounds better than my old Pioneer detachable face that had a custom "burned out backlights" mod...



                    You should do a writeup on this kind of stuff, Robert. Coding, that is...
                    -60v6's 2nd Jon M.
                    91 Black Lumina Z34-5 speed
                    92 Black Lumina Z34 5 speed (getting there, slowly... follow the progress here)
                    94 Red Ford Ranger 2WD-5 speed
                    Originally posted by Jay Leno
                    Tires are cheap clutches...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pocket-rocket View Post
                      Watch how many bells and whistles you put on it as far as lights, ect. When I got my Sony stereo, I about got in a few wrecks the first couple weeks cause I was drawn to it like a mosquito to a bug zapper...

                      You should do a writeup on this kind of stuff, Robert. Coding, that is...
                      it's more something to keep me entertained should she be driving....

                      oh, and i'll let an expert write-up stuff for coding.... i'm still very far under the learning curve compared to some of the guys out there.
                      1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                      Latest nAst1 files here!
                      Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lol, I would rather be drawn to a stereo while I'm driving than ride with my wife... I'm probably lucky she doesn't read this forum...
                        -60v6's 2nd Jon M.
                        91 Black Lumina Z34-5 speed
                        92 Black Lumina Z34 5 speed (getting there, slowly... follow the progress here)
                        94 Red Ford Ranger 2WD-5 speed
                        Originally posted by Jay Leno
                        Tires are cheap clutches...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have you gotten it to read past 6375 RPM yet? i was working on that but i don't remember where i got with it...
                          Past Builds;
                          1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                          1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                          Current Project;
                          1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i have an 8 bit RPM X 50 variable setup from a 16 bit filtered RPM X 1 value, so i should be able to read up to 12,750RPM, however i really don't feel like running a LHO over even 5400, it just wheezes.

                            but for a little explanation:

                            the low VE and spark table uses a RPM X 12.5 variable for increased resolution, the mid tables use RPM X 25 since it offers the most resolution while being able to go up to 5200 RPM, and the high tables use the RPM X 50 variable.
                            1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                            Latest nAst1 files here!
                            Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              this might sound dumb but can you tell me in a pragmatic sense how this is going to help the tuning world? How does everybody switching to $A1 help out? Sorry for the mad ignorance on my part.

                              93 Firebird 3.4
                              Pacesetter Headers, Flowmaster 80, Comp 1.6 RR,Cloyes 2x Set, P&P Heads & Intakes, Custom Cam, Holley FPR, Ram Air Intake, Posi Rear w/3.42's & Disk Brakes.
                              Cam and Heads by 60Inclusive.com

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