DF + 59: My newest idea...

[robertisaar]

Sil got this idea going in my head, so i may as well post it here for anyone interested in it.

as of now, this is basically a blog for my thoughts, since i'm not sure if i'll be keeping an auto with boost. the 5 or 6 gear tranny MAY happen long before then, i'm still undecided as of yet.

BUT

it will be good info for anyone who goes this route.

AFAIK, this path has NO compromises, therefore, i suggest it.

anyone interested, PLEASE chime in, i do this not only for myself, but for the 60V6 community as well. i'd like your opinions/thoughts/criticism.

my progress thus far:





DF requires just enough to run the tranny and other misc stuff that 59 won't, or does a worse job of.

59 will handle ALL fuel and spark. GREAT since 59 allows use of a 3-BAR MAP, for approximately ~28psi maximum boost... and with VERY defined fuel and spark tables

for 59(and any other mask meant for a dizzy), need to add 60* of spark to the reference, and DIS now works. adjust the maximum advance and retard as well.

not sure how many fans 59 is set up for. might need to use DF for those to keep the pair seperate(for those of us lucky enough to have 2 fans anyway)

need a 1227749 wiring diagram...

9396:
ALDL connector: shouldn't need it since all necessary info will be read from the $59 ECM.
2nd gear start: keep
TCC: keep
gear switches: not necessary, but if present, why not keep them?
shift solenoids: keep
PNP switch: keep
VSS: keep
SES light: no point, DTCs will be disabled.
shift light: doesn't apply to most/any of us...
buffered speed out: for the speedo, gotta keep it
AIR: HAHAHAHAHA HELLLLLLLLL NO!!
CCP: undecided....
EGR: 59 won't control a digital setup, so to keep it, need to keep them hooked up to 9396
MAP: needed for EGR(if used), possibly others. needs to remain a 1-bar.
ECT: needed for TCC lockup
DIS: see no reason to have it hooked up...
injectors: obviously, no
MAT/IAT: needed for dual fans, possibly others
TPS: needed for shift points
Battery input: duh
fuel pump: maybe if you're using VATS...
IAC: i see no reason to leave it hooked to the 9396
ECM grounds: necessary
O2: unnecessary
ignition feed: yes, how else would it know to turn on?
power steering signal: pointless if the IAC is hooked to the 59 ECM...
knock sensor: no, no reason at all
fans: for dual fans: yes
A/C pressure sensor: ....might as well, and keep the A/C connected to the 9396, since it's known to work
A/C request: for the above reason, yes
clutch switch: if you have a 5 speed, why are you reading this?
A/C control, see above

[robertisaar]

something to add: autotuning with a WB is something the code59 community has been working on for a while.

with boost i believe a WB is necessary(at least for the initial tuning), and would accept nothing less. for my N/A motors, a NB will do just fine...

[SappySE107]

You can tune boost with narrow band. To fine tune it, wide band but you can certainly street tune it and get it setup with narrow band first.

[robertisaar]

while i agree with that completely, it seems somewhat counter-productive to tune NB, then tune again with WB...

then again, knowing me i would want to get the VE/spark close before the turbo ever goes on just to see how much effect it has when there is a restriction in the intake/exhaust...

either way, it looks like i'm doing it twice

[IsaacHayes]

EGR, ditch it. CCP, do it via $59. Anything fuel/spark related should be the ECM controlling Fuel/Spark. If the $DF is only controling trans, then that is all it should control. Any emissions/etc should be the other PCM... Other wise when the EGR/CCP opens up with the $DF, the PCM controlling the fuel/spark ($59) won't know to compensate.. Even the A/C should be on code $59 so that it can command the IAC to open when turned on so it doesn't stall... Same for the Fans since it opens the IAC when turned on..

The DF will need MAP for load calculation for shifting too. So you'd run 2 MAPs... Sort of what I was thinking with piggy backing an OBD1.5 PCM for trans and Megasquirt for Fuel/Spark... But with the Code59, you keep all the emissions and drivability stuff like command IAC for a/c, fans, etc...

[robertisaar]

AFAIK: the tranny doesn't care for the MAP when shifting...

i'd have to read into the code to see, but i don't think it does...

[IsaacHayes]

Hmm. I could swear it looks at load, I can be on the hwy, go up a hill, add a little throttle then hold it still for a while, then unlocks the TCC after a while of sensing load and being "bogged".

[bszopi]

I think it does use the MAP - see VS (Vacuum Sensor).

[robertisaar]

Hmm. I could swear it looks at load, I can be on the hwy, go up a hill, add a little throttle then hold it still for a while, then unlocks the TCC after a while of sensing load and being "bogged".

you're still running on 1.5 IIRC...

i'm talking a whole different ballgame.

brad: that's from a 94-95 isn't it? 3x00 and 3.4TDC never got the PWM until then although the 3.8 cars got it from the start IIRC.

[robertisaar]

looked over everything: looks like it uses barometric to adjust shift points slighty, and although the baro reading is really just what the MAP says when the engine is either off or at WOT up to a specific RPM, MAP itself has nothing to do with tranny parameters...

but since the MAP was going to stay hooked up anyways, it really doesn't make a difference...

[IsaacHayes]

_shrug_ I'd figure OBD1 would use it as well... I'd leave it...

[robertisaar]

_shrug_ I'd figure OBD1 would use it as well... I'd leave it...

DF is less "sophisticated" than whatever mask runs our original PCMs...

not surprising to me.

no reason to remove it anyway.

BTW: should have the diagrams for a Sy/Ty 7749 within a week...

[IsaacHayes]

Why bother? Code59 runs on a 7730 just fine with no wiring changes...

[robertisaar]

i like the idea of keeping both ECMs in the same place.... and a 7730 won't cut it. granted neither will a 7749 since they have the same case, but after i have the diagram, i can start making the theoretical pinouts for another weatherproof ECM, such as another 9396 or a 7727... luckily i could borrow the one that's in the GP for testing purposes...

[IsaacHayes]

Then a 7727 will work too... And you already have the pinouts for the 9396 figured out......