Tuning a 93 3.4 Firebird

[tkoforpresident]

yeah... so that didn't work.


CAR WOULDN'T EVEN START.

Fully charged battery, fresh gasoline, new oil& filter....

I went back to the stock tune (or close to it at least) and it wouldnt' even start up.

here's the ONLY changes i made to John's stock 3.4 iron head .bin:



Disabled CCP, EGR, IAC Idle table.

and changed the BPC from 224 to 210. Whoopdeedoo.

Sooooooooo apparently going back to the stock tune isn't gonna work either since the car won't even start.

To make matters worse (can they get worse?) v5 wouldn't stream data for me at all. It was like a foreign language to me compared to v4. It was like missing commands that should have been there and just weren't. I'm probably gonna go back to v4, thats how bad it was.

Oh and windows 7 didn't help matters either. You know how we "assumed" that we could find the usb port # like in vista? Well it appears there is no such thing anymore in windows 7. If you go to start menu>computer>properties>device manager... it's not even listed as an option.

of course all this is moot since the car won't start anyhow.


If any of you want i can upload the .bin that i used to look at, but at this point i don't know if something is physically wrong with the engine or what's going on. I'm out of money to throw at this car and i'm running out of patience too it would appear. (to be honest, if i were making ANY progress I would be elated)

i am out of ideas. I thought this was "going back to basics" but it didn't work out.

[robertisaar]

what part of streaming data with V5 did you get stuck on?

[tkoforpresident]

well there isn't even a "connect" command that tells me if i'm hooked up to the motor or not. There is no "data log" section like in v4 where you can do all of those things. I just don't get it.

and even when i did hit "record" it wasn't showing any data at all.

to put it plainly, I was completely lost. I would need someone to tell me step by step what to do because it was either that much different from v4 or it's similar and i just forgot how to do it.

It's all moot anyhow, that car wouldn't start!

[SappySE107]

Is this an iron head motor? 13 pages is a lot to read now I have no idea what files you have tried but that cam will work and you can tune it. You need to get the fueling down and possible increase the start up IAC position and increase the idle speed to 1000 to get started.

[tkoforpresident]

Is this an iron head motor? 13 pages is a lot to read now I have no idea what files you have tried but that cam will work and you can tune it. You need to get the fueling down and possible increase the start up IAC position and increase the idle speed to 1000 to get started.

thanks Sappy. The fueling is exactly what i was hoping to get down this go-around. By adjusting the fuel pressure til the data read "stoich" and then setting BPC off of those #'s and the fact that i'm using 19lb injectors.

The idle is already set at 1000 believe it or not, thats just what these cars run at.

What changes do you think i should make to the IAC position (or is it also termed "steps"?) because we were talking about that earlier.

and yes, iron head motor. stock 3.4 block with p&p heads, custom camshaft, 19 lb injectors, full exhaust, ram air, etc. and of course the 7727 pcm swap with John's custom "3.4 iron head tune"

[SappySE107]

im trying to get in touch with john on MSN but its V day so who knows. Set the fuel pressure to stock and leave it alone for now. 19# aren't stock, thats for sure. I need to know what he did before I can start to give you suggestions.

IAC is steps and it will be an array based on coolant temp I believe. Since its all iron head though, that should be ok in stock programming. Is that cam a 272 type?

[tkoforpresident]

im trying to get in touch with john on MSN but its V day so who knows. Set the fuel pressure to stock and leave it alone for now. 19# aren't stock, thats for sure. I need to know what he did before I can start to give you suggestions.

IAC is steps and it will be an array based on coolant temp I believe. Since its all iron head though, that should be ok in stock programming. Is that cam a 272 type?

I know.. he's busy all the time. I will try to fill you in on what i can.

full mods:

3.4 l32 motor
ram air intake, p&p throttlebody (stock), p&p upper and lower intake, p&p heads (rebuilt too with comp valvetrain components, done by John) comp custom camshaft (i'd have to look up the specs but i think they are in the beginning of this thread?) 1.6 comp roller rockers (stock ratio is 1.5), full exhaust including headers etc, 19lb fuel injectors out of a 3.8 firebird (stock is 17 lb), holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator with autometer mechanical gauge (in bay), msd coil packs, taylor pro wires, ngk plugs. I won't mention all the other mods because they don't have to do with the motor. I hope this will help even a little.

Oh and i can't set the pressure to stock until i get the car started. (it's the only time you can truly set it)

[tkoforpresident]

ok, iac steps changed to 40 (in the Initial IAC minimum Value after NVM power loss)

[tkoforpresident]

and i will be checking the spark plugs to see if they are fouled.

[tkoforpresident]

and... considering reverting back to a smaller camshaft (think 260H) and installing the 18.2lb/hr injectors that Bob cleaned up. That way i can simplify things and maybe even run off a somewhat stock tune.

[SappySE107]

What pressure is it set to now if you can't adjust it unless its running? You can adjust it with key on I would think. Put the stock coils in, because I have had issues trying to tune with a bad MSD and have no faith in that product.

Found the cam specs. 109 lsa is fun to tune, that is for sure.

[tkoforpresident]

What pressure is it set to now if you can't adjust it unless its running? You can adjust it with key on I would think. Put the stock coils in, because I have had issues trying to tune with a bad MSD and have no faith in that product.

Found the cam specs. 109 lsa is fun to tune, that is for sure.

sorry, stock coils are gone =(

and yes, i can change psi a little bit with key-on but it's not a very good way of doing it. I'm sure i have it close to 43.5 anyhow.

like i said, thinking about going back to a different cam and injectors that i know are in good working order and have a lb/hr # i can work with (18.2)

btw, thanks for helping me out.

[SappySE107]

18.2 vs 19 so I don't know what you plan to accomplish with that. You can tune for 30# injectors for that matter.

If it doesn't run, how are you sure its 43.5 psi or close? If you set it to 49 with just the key on, it should be close. I am not convinced that your cam is the problem right now but if you are going to swap, there is little reason to bother with tuning right now. I will wait to you decide.

[tkoforpresident]

18.2 vs 19 so I don't know what you plan to accomplish with that. You can tune for 30# injectors for that matter.

If it doesn't run, how are you sure its 43.5 psi or close? If you set it to 49 with just the key on, it should be close. I am not convinced that your cam is the problem right now but if you are going to swap, there is little reason to bother with tuning right now. I will wait to you decide.

i had the psi set at 43.5 earlier and it wasn't helping matters at all. In fact it was running VERY rich with the BPC set and running stock psi, to the point that we decided the BPC must be set another way. That way was to let the car get up to closed loop mode and then lower the psi until we get a close to "stoich" reading from the blm/int. At that point I was to record the psi that it was at and using that # and the knowledge that the injectors were 19lb, we could come up with a new BPC and set the psi back to 43.5 with that new ratio. At least, that was the plan.

As you can see it won't even fire up. What i propose to do (and i'm open to debate about it's being the best course) is to buy a new cam/lifter set, one that is not so radical such as a 260H (one that i have run before on my stock obd 1.5 pcm without issue) and install the 18.2 lb injectors that are all cleaned up and ready to go. Stock injectors are 17lb on the 3.4 I figure that little bump up will be not only necessary considering the mods already done to the motor but also easy to tune considering i know the exact lb/hr rating (18.2) with the 19 lb injectors i didn't know two things. First, that they were even in good shape and flowing properly. Second, the exact lb/hr rating. They could have been 19.9 lb/hr for all i know. I searched and could never get an answer. So by going with the 18.2 injectors i hope to clear up another variable that could be an issue right now.

And of course with a new build goes the chance to replace parts that at the moment and because of current conditions may not be helping much. For instance all the plugs may be fouled due to the rich start up attempts, etc.

I am hoping that with these changes that are all heading back toward stock specs and ones that are more constant with a stock 3.4 tune (remember i ran the 260H once quite fine with the stock computer) I will be able to slightly modify Johns' iron head .bin which was concocted with the use of his customers 3.4 (using stock injectors and modifications ) to one that will run my new set up without much issue. These changes will be simple. A tweaking of the BPC, and one or two other minor changes.

If all goes well and the car is driveable at THAT point i would like to get back into datalogging and possibly improve the tune in regards to the VE and spark as to increase power/performance. But as far as current goals are concerned I would just like to have a car that is driveable and can get me with some modicum of consistency from A to B. As it were, of course.

[tkoforpresident]

I know this thread will be gone to the grave shortly and replaced with another one regarding my "back to stock" (or closer to) rebuild. But i do have a question for John regarding his "stock iron head tune". The BPC in the stock $a1 is set for 224. But that is for 16.7 lb/hr injectors. Why is it then that your tune is also set up with the BPC at 224 when the 3.4 uses 17.7lb/hr stock injectors? I know this because i just looked at the stock tune that you sent me to work with. Did you just not touch the BPC then? Did you send me the wrong .bin? I need a fresh copy of whatever .bin you made for Paul's 3.4 motor since that is the exact one that i want to work with directly after my rebuild.

Plz respond with some insight.

thx
max