Tuning a 93 3.4 Firebird

[robertisaar]

don't go through throttle transitions too fast. example being going from 0% to 25% and then going from 25% back to 0% instantly. not good for base tuning since then the AE and DE will now be factored in, possibly ruining a good log. it will be useful, if not necessary, to do that later, but for now, focus on those two tables.

[tkoforpresident]

don't go through throttle transitions too fast. example being going from 0% to 25% and then going from 25% back to 0% instantly. not good for base tuning since then the AE and DE will now be factored in, possibly ruining a good log. it will be useful, if not necessary, to do that later, but for now, focus on those two tables.

ok thanks. I'll try to be very gradual in my throttle increase/decreases.

[tkoforpresident]

I'm so depressed right now...

I datalogged tonite with the freshly burned chip and it actually ran worse (it seemed). Totally rich, a few trouble codes/flags were set off during the log (IAC, 02 Sensor Rich)

The idle was still eratic (still need to do idle relearn maybe that has to do with it, but i can't do half of those steps in the relearn process if my car won't run/start up reliably)

My battery needed to be charged again... i'm about to just buy a new one at this point so as to not have to deal with that issue.

I feel like my adjustments were in vain but maybe the data says otherwise...

i'm attaching the datalog. Operating temps for me are about 175-180*.

[tkoforpresident]

should be here...

[robertisaar]

by erratic idle: you mean the idle going up and down by about 200RPM, almost stalls, goes high, then dips too far again, keeps repeating? good indication that you need to do a idle learn...

the GP's IAC minimum has been increasing lately, i'm guessing due to the weather, it's now up around 40. i imagine your's is a bit low and causing an idle flucuation.

i see the extreme rich condition. it looks like it kicked out of closed loop a few times... not running a heated O2 obviously... once you're actually on the road, that won't be an issue since it shouldn't get cold enough while moving to drop out. running the stock logs or headers? and how old is the O2?

[tkoforpresident]

by erratic idle: you mean the idle going up and down by about 200RPM, almost stalls, goes high, then dips too far again, keeps repeating? good indication that you need to do a idle learn...

the GP's IAC minimum has been increasing lately, i'm guessing due to the weather, it's now up around 40. i imagine your's is a bit low and causing an idle flucuation.

i see the extreme rich condition. it looks like it kicked out of closed loop a few times... not running a heated O2 obviously... once you're actually on the road, that won't be an issue since it shouldn't get cold enough while moving to drop out. running the stock logs or headers? and how old is the O2?

erratic idle: yes as you described it.

i'm running pacesetter headers and my 02 sensors are only a few thousand miles old, but if you think i ought to, i'll replace it with a new one (thought i'm not sure which one to replaces since only one is used now with obd-1.

Why was it running so darn rich? I thought we lowered the VE across the board but seems like it was worse than last time??

[robertisaar]

depending on how far downstream the sensor got placed compared to the stockers, that could do it, headers also don't retain as much heat, which is why most manufacturers will suggest using a heated O2 with headers...

maybe not enough fuel got pulled. i really didn't think that even with a cam that bumpy that the idle would be that far off. maybe my assumption was wrong...

send me the latest BIN, i want to play with something to make the tuning a bit quicker...

as for which O2 is being used: if you ever need to replace it, ask john to see which one he wired. if he can't remember, just unplug one and see if the ECU freaks out... that will tell you pretty quickly which one is hooked up. i would wait to see if removing some fuel will heat up the O2 a little more though. a lean AFR burns hotter in the cylinder and close to the ports, but a rich mixture burns hotter further downstream.

[tkoforpresident]

depending on how far downstream the sensor got placed compared to the stockers, that could do it, headers also don't retain as much heat, which is why most manufacturers will suggest using a heated O2 with headers...

maybe not enough fuel got pulled. i really didn't think that even with a cam that bumpy that the idle would be that far off. maybe my assumption was wrong...

send me the latest BIN, i want to play with something to make the tuning a bit quicker...

as for which O2 is being used: if you ever need to replace it, ask john to see which one he wired. if he can't remember, just unplug one and see if the ECU freaks out... that will tell you pretty quickly which one is hooked up. i would wait to see if removing some fuel will heat up the O2 a little more though. a lean AFR burns hotter in the cylinder and close to the ports, but a rich mixture burns hotter further downstream.

ok cool thanks. sending you the .bin now via your email addy

[tkoforpresident]

thanks for making those changes Robert. (from what i could tell you did something with the BASE VE tables) how will that help make tuning easier from here on out?

Should i still adjust VE the same was as before using the fuel trim program? ( I would still probably need you to go over that once more with me, there were a lot of steps lol)

[robertisaar]

yes, go over it the same way. if/when you get stuck, let me know.

[tkoforpresident]

ok, i'll give it a go.

whats the order again? blm/int/kpa ?

[robertisaar]

order is RPM kPa BLM INT be sure to cut out everything before it reachees full temp.

[tkoforpresident]

order is RPM kPa BLM INT be sure to cut out everything before it reachees full temp.

ok will give it a go!

when i do get the adjustments and start hammering them out do you want me to still only change the .800 and up #'s, or do them all? I'm thinking maybe some of those crazy adjustment projections were actually legit... lol

but what do you think?

finally, will i still be making the changes to the Idle VE table the way i did before? (off of the newly adjusted Base VE table)

thanks a bunch

max

[robertisaar]

yes, change the idle VE the same way as before, or else you'll be idling with the old tables and you'll constantly be running in a loop of never getting anything accomplished.

i guess those numbers could have been right, but it still seems way out there...

[tkoforpresident]

so then should i just stick to the .800 and up plan? or go buck wild and do it all?