Tuning a 93 3.4 Firebird

[robertisaar]

Wow, 3.8 had only 19lb/hr injectors??????? That doesn't make sense... Those are 200hp rated motor, my motor is rated 160hp and I'm hitting 92% duty cycle in the upper RPMs with my mods... Did the 3.8 run higher than 43.5psi fuel pressure?

the 3.8 also didn't make any power in the upper RPM range....

a motor that makes peak torque at 2500RPM will naturally have a lower duty cycle compared to one at 5000...

[tkoforpresident]

Wow, 3.8 had only 19lb/hr injectors??????? That doesn't make sense... Those are 200hp rated motor, my motor is rated 160hp and I'm hitting 92% duty cycle in the upper RPMs with my mods... Did the 3.8 run higher than 43.5psi fuel pressure?

Yup, they had stock 19lb injectors. They are direct replacements on the fuel rail.

[tkoforpresident]

Max...if they are the Rochester Multech II variety...you didn't happen to make a note of their number...did you? ...Its either embossed in white or etched into the edge of the black plastic coil housing. When I pull the old 3.4L Engine from the Black Camaro... I'll yank the Accel 19 Lbrs (High Impedance) off the Fuel Rail, then I'll run them through "The FrankInjector" Cleaning Machine a few times and after tidying them up until they are nice and clean, I'll send them to you to D*ck around with if you like... No Charge...

haha sry Bob, I didn't look at any kind of literature on the injectors. If you want to send me some accel injectors that would be awesome

but i would hate to take the UIM off just to swap in some injectors. I wish i knew your machine was finished or i would have sent you the 19lb injectors to clean up.

[60dgrzbelow0]

haha sry Bob, I didn't look at any kind of literature on the injectors. If you want to send me some Accel injectors that would be awesome But I would hate to have to take off the UIM just to swap in some injectors. I wish I had known your machine was finished... Then I would have sent you the 19lb injectors to clean up!

I know...Damn... But its only been completed in the last two weeks or so that I've proven out doing all three major phases of EFI cleaning: Ultrasonic (with submerged Pintle Valve Actuation), Pressurized Spray Cleaning with Binary EFI Cleaning Solutions (Again, with Pintle Valve Actuation and finally, The Flow Balance Testing.

The only thing I can't do on the Multechs is replace the screen and filters and frankly... since I'm not intent of getting that deeply into rebuilding any of them on that scale, I have not tried to test any of the ones this can be done on. If you get a chance... look at just the videos and let me know what you think about the "Before and After" and the three generations of development I put the machine through in a very short time frame.

I'll send you the Accels as soon as I get the old engine out of the 94' Camaro ...and the new engine in... and hopefully...running properly. By the way... in one of the videos you can actually see one of the extra Accels being cleaned alongside the other GM Multechs. (I have two extras from a set of eight Accels that I'm using for testing "The Frankinjector")

[60dgrzbelow0]

This thread will probably need to be moved to another section later as completely Off Topic...but since it involves a Safety Issue... I wanted to mention it right away...

Max... I just played the videos of your Cool Firebird... The motor sounds very impressive from John's contribution and your wrenching efforts...but the one thing I spied that stressed me was seeing the Drum Brakes on the back of the car. I know you have the Engine Running and Performance Issues firmly in mind right now...but since, "No Good Deed Ever Goes Unpunished..." with more horse power comes more difficulty in getting the car to stop. You already know the story about Scotty's accident from the inverted S/S TB Clamp FUBAR going WOT and his Brake Failure that followed. This near tragedy prompted me to do a complete LS1 Brake conversion on his car just before his motor went down.

At the very least... I would recommend this setup for just the rears on your car...when you can swing it. After doing the R&R...I liked the way Scott's Black Camaro stopped soooo smoothly and effortlessly, that eventually... I picked up another Full LS1 setup for my 93' Z-28 from a dude in Orlando (I saved a bundle on S&H by driving over to pick the stuff up firsthand and this disk brake package is yet to be installed until after the Boy's ride is back in the saddle.) Here is the basic set up you will need to get rid of those drums. eBay has a lot of these being offered every time another 4th Gen F-Body is parted out...

This first offer is missing the Emergency Cable Bracket and the Disks too...so its not worth considering and this character is asking way too much moeny for them...I'm only showing it so you know to be careful to get a COMPLETE REAR SET versus a FUBARed partial one. You CANNOT install these brakes without the ENTIRE REAR SETUP:

Both Rear Disks
Both Rear Calipers with Brackets and Support Hardware
Both Four Bolt Axle Mounted Emergency Brakes with Hardware
Both Emergency Braked Cable (With the Rectangular Cable Guides)
Both Emergency Cable Support Brackets

If you get the set and they don't look absolutely pristine... just have the disks turned if within specs and get a whole new set of Ceramic Disk Pads when you buy the Felpro Gasket, Sealer, 90 Wgt Gear Oil and if needed, the Transaxle Additive you'll need when you pull both axles and replace the Timken Roller bearings in both axle housings to install all the LS1 Hardware. (This part can be a little tricky because of the Moon Clips and the Planetary Gears tendency to fall out and chip your front teeth if you don't pay attention to what you are doing )

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02-Camaro-Firebird-LS1-12-Rear-Disc-Brake-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c0d61ae8fQQitemZ120483589775QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/93-97-98-02-LT1-Camaro-Firebird-LS1-Front-Brake-Upgrade_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3356ca7fcdQQitemZ220499443661QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02-LS1-Camaro-Firebird-12-Inch-Rear-Disc-Brake-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53ddbe4633QQitemZ360202520115QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

If you do decide to take the plunge toward more peace of mind when you mash the brake pedal, I should mention that this is not the easiest conversion to do in the world... but I can give you a very decent Step-By-Step set of procedures that will save you hours of agony and frustration in getting it done. You do NOT have to completely replace the rear Transaxle just to get a decent set of Disk Brakes!

[tkoforpresident]

lol Bob, once again i'm a step ahead of you

i don't know if i ever mentioned it before but i had found a rear end off a 94 trans am for 200$ that had about 80,000 miles on it (back in like March).

While i had the car up in the air (this last tear down) and i was waiting for Johns epic camshaft to arrive i decided to swap it in.

So what i had with the old rear end was:

open differential
3.23 gears
drum brakes
17mm sway bar

old rear end pictured here:



And what i ended up with after the swap was:

Posi Differential
3.42 gears
Disk brakes
19mm sway bar

I also went the extra step, buying brand new discs and pads, new rear shocks and springs, and using royal purple syntehtic gear oil in the pumpkin (20$ a quart!!)

new rear (at least the brake aspect) pictured here:

[tkoforpresident]

I know...Damn... But its only been completed in the last two weeks or so that I've proven out doing all three major phases of EFI cleaning: Ultrasonic (with submerged Pintle Valve Actuation), Pressurized Spray Cleaning with Binary EFI Cleaning Solutions (Again, with Pintle Valve Actuation and finally, The Flow Balance Testing.

The only thing I can't do on the Multechs is replace the screen and filters and frankly... since I'm not intent of getting that deeply into rebuilding any of them on that scale, I have not tried to test any of the ones this can be done on. If you get a chance... look at just the videos and let me know what you think about the "Before and After" and the three generations of development I put the machine through in a very short time frame.

I'll send you the Accels as soon as I get the old engine out of the 94' Camaro ...and the new engine in... and hopefully...running properly. By the way... in one of the videos you can actually see one of the extra Accels being cleaned alongside the other GM Multechs. (I have two extras from a set of eight Accels that I'm using for testing "The Frankinjector")

tell ya what Bob, if you send me those accel injectors squeaky clean and sprayin like the day they were made i promise i'll swap em in in the course of an evening

and if you want i'll send you my old stocker 17lbers to test on or w/e you do over in the "frankinjector" factory. Btw, i checked out your vids and pics, very impressive! I still can't believe you made that at your house....

[60dgrzbelow0]

[QUOTE=tkoforpresident;405071]lol Bob, once again i'm a step ahead of you

i don't know if i ever mentioned it before but i had found a rear end off a 94 trans am for 200$ that had about 80,000 miles on it (back in like March).

While i had the car up in the air (this last tear down) and i was waiting for Johns epic camshaft to arrive i decided to swap it in.

So what i had with the old rear end was:

open differential
3.23 gears
drum brakes
17mm sway bar

And what i ended up with after the swap was:

Posi Differential
3.42 gears
Disk brakes
19mm sway bar

I also went the extra step, buying brand new discs and pads, new rear shocks and springs, and using royal purple synthetic gear oil in the pumpkin (20$ a quart!!)


My God, Teek... I'm so relieved that you are way ahead of me on this one, Max... After Scotty's Nightmare..I couldn't be happier for this seriously good upgrade you've done here...if I was TWINS! I got seduced by the Video ...thinking it was contemporaneous with your present circumstances.. Please forgive my well-meant, but under-sighted look on this one... Let me know if you want me to delete my post on the matter or leave it for the benefit of others to have such a pleasant surprise with your followup photos!

[tkoforpresident]

lol no worries Bob, i'd rather air on the safe side as well.

yeh, 200 bones was pretty good considering it was complete with everything.

there is a "slight" problem with the whole "rear end swap". The brakes haven't been fully bled and for sundry reasons that i will not go into i can't do it properly so i will have a shop do it before i ever attempt to drive it.

[60dgrzbelow0]

Tell me these don't stop soooooooo much better than those Drum Brakes used to!...and only Two "Fazools"...THAT was one Helluva Deal, Too!

[tkoforpresident]

Tell me these don't stop soooooooo much better than the Drum Brakes used to!

actually, i haven't even driven it yet (remember my car stalls out in DRIVE, and the brakes aren't working properly at the moment anyways without being bled properly)

go ahead and leave those insightful tips up about the ls1 brake swap. this thread is already zig zagging as it is lol but eventually it will be more of a tuning thread once i get the swap kit in the mail

[60dgrzbelow0]

One Armed Brake Bleeding!

lol...No worries Bob, I'd rather err on the safe side as well. Now I have some advice for YOU. For fear of angering the Mod gods... I wouldn't put all those pics^ in a quote since it takes up half the page lol

I saw that... Just fixed the images problem..thanks...

...There is a "slight" problem with the whole "rear end swap". The brakes haven't been fully bled and for sundry reasons that I will not go into I can't do it properly so I will have a shop do it before I ever attempt to drive it.

Here again... I think I can help with this issue. Bleeding these Brakes is Breeze using the Autozone Brake Bleeding Hand Vacuum Pump...(I got the less expensive version of this one)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/accessories/accProductDetails.jsp?displayName=VacuumPumpBrakeBleedKit&itemId=478-10&navValue=100478&parentId=6-10&productId=601274&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=601274_0_0_&filterByKeyWord=Actron&categoryNValue=100006&store=2496&skuDisplayName=VacuumPumpBrakeBleedKit&categoryDisplayName=Tools&_requestid=101197

I took a spanking clean Clear Plastic Jar and after puncturing the lid just large enough to accept (and hold tightly) on the clear drain hose...I just fed in and submerged the suction/drain side under some fresh fluid to avoid cavitation and opened the Master Cylinder and carefully opened each brake line, following the chart as to which wheel to do in what order...and I just kept the fluid level very frequently topped off while purging all that old disgusting, watery, rusty crappy brake fluid out of the lines...one at a time...being careful not to allow the MC to run dry...lest I have to remove it and re-prime it on the bench!

The one strange phenomena is that even as you are squeezing the handle of the device...you will still see small bubbles of air getting pulled into the suction side clear line...even after you have tightly closed the drain cocks! But not to worry...this is normal and is just air getting sucked in around the locking 12mm Bleeder clear plastic tubing because the tool develops so much powerful suction!. As for the other caution...I did the ABS Bleeder AFTER pulling the Fuse and the Harness connectors to avoid having problems with it...and it seemed to work okay...but again...being careful NOT to let the Master Cylinder get too low (never below half). Please check with others that have done their ABS as well for any possible problems...I never have to worry about ice and snow where I am ...but in the Town that O.J. Built...its so different ...and dangerous in winter! Once I was done pumping things up, that brake pedal was harder than Chinese Checkers after that! Don't forget to make one last check on the MC level and close it up when you are done...and check those bleeders one last time, too (Careful now...Only Rightee Tightee!) And that really did it!

EDIT: One last little trick I devised that might save you the agony of sheering off the Bleeder Valve Hex Screw Nipples: Use an Open ended, hinged, 12 MM Brake Bleeder Wrench to slip properly around the nut facings... but first make sure you do so with enough room to clamp a tiny set of Vice-Grips on the outside of the open ended wrench...with just enough pressure to keep it from trying to spread...and a then bit snugger than a standard 6 or 12 point closed box wrench or even a socket might be. This method works extremely well on Brake Bleeder Valves that have long since rusted or corroded solid inside the Cast Iron or even Aluminum Brake Housings! They "Break" free quite easily after that... without "Breaking the Brakes".

One Crisis ...One Mechanic!

[robertisaar]

i picked up a cheap mightvac vacuum pump from autozone a while ago for this exact reason. it does work nicely, especially if there is no one else to help out.

[60dgrzbelow0]

i picked up a cheap mightyvac vacuum pump from autozone a while ago for this exact reason. it does work nicely, especially if there is no one else to help out.

Robert..THAT is the name of Booger I got and used that I was trying to think of! Thanks...

[robertisaar]

spelling error on my part: mightyvac