i think im gonna give up..

[SappySE107]

Normal driving, it should learn well enough if you don't get on it hard. Im talking grandma driving.

I spent 6 months reading the internet and testing. I started over many many times. I also didn't have a job so its pretty much all I did. I have since done many 60V6s from stock to high compression/cammed engines. It still took me the equivalent of 2 solid weeks of tuning (spread out over 2-3 years cause its not my car) to get it where its at today for my 3400 swap chip.

[Alxsmt]

ok, thats good to know!

ive been reading up on tunning for about a year and a half and dont really know much lol (mainly on here and bstuff, including links people have posted). it doesnt seem like there are any hard facts, mostly just some random guy saying what he did (i know u know ur stuff though). is there any specific website for tunning that you know of that would help me learn more about it?

[SappySE107]

I read the thirdgen.org tuning article and there was another excellent article on diy-efi.org but thats gone. If you can find that one, it would probably help you the most. When it comes to tuning, there is more than 1 way to do some of the tuning, especially fueling. Some use software they made to automatically tune the VE tables based on the BLM/INT values.

I recommend very highly for anyone that wants to mod their car, to learn how to tune while its stock/near stock, or save up to get it tuned. Its much easier to learn when the baseline is already there

[Alxsmt]

sweet thanks! there is a lot of good random articles on that site too


so how much do u think it would cost to have a good shop tune? 200-500? 500-2k?

[SappySE107]

200-500 unless you get a dyno involved right away (waste of time and money IMO). Street tune, then dyno tune for WOT is the way I do it. Some swear by just a dyno, with rolling road but its still not going to be that loaded up on the street. I don't drive with ratchet straps holding the suspension down anyway:P

[Joseph Upson]

Here is my suggestion having been in your situation except with the Moates APU-1 emulator. First make sure you have good tight connections at the vehicle ALDL plug terminals. My cable is from Moates yet I discovered by accident I still didn't have a good connection at the plug.

Use TunerProRT or Tunercat which is probably better having served the Fiero for many more years, for datalogging. A datalog link is crucial as it was what finally helped me discover I had a bad MAP sensor which wasn't setting a code.

I also needed to use Tunercat to successfully remove all of the rev limiters. I started with the A1 code which uses 16 lb/hr injectors. It maybe easier for you to start with these or the Fiero injectors since the computer is already setup for them and then enter an injector value using the Ostrich about 4 points lower so that they deliver more fuel per pulse to help you get a better baseline before moving up to larger injectors. The reason behind this is you don't want to create multiple problems at once to where you can't tell what's causing you the most trouble. If you start making adjustments to fuel tables before the engine is running stable you will only make the process more complicated, since different series injectors may cause to much of a swing in fuel delivery despite having come from similar engines.

Make sure there are no program updates for the Ostrich which was an issue I had with my Emulator, then you need to go to the systems/hardware section of your computer and make sure your driver is properly installed. I found out despite having received a driver install complete message that my driver was still out dated as compared to what I found later after checking the Moates website.

It took me several attempts over months to finally get my laptop to link up to ALDL with the 8F code I needed to run with the turbos. I could emulate but I could not link in order to datalog with the 8F code. I could do it with the A1 code strangely enough. Once I discovered the poor connection, and the driver issue I made lots of progress. Once you have a data link you can verify that you have your sensors connected properly and that you are getting the proper readings.

The 3400 is a good jump from the 3.1 but given how well the 2.8L Fiero code runs the 3.4 from the camaro before any tuning, you should get the same response from an even smaller displacement change. You also need to get ahold of a wide band O2 feed if you don't have one already. I would start from scratch and make sure all sensors are functioning properly before attempting to tune or you'll really have a headache with it because I was on the verge of throwing in the towel myself not knowing my MAP sensor was causing all of the trouble, I wouldn't have known it without the datalink showing a constant MAP value despite throttle change.

Hang in there.

[IsaacHayes]

Yeah un-install the driver(s) before installing a new one. This goes for any hardware driver change for anything.

[SappySE107]

Going from a gen 1 2.8 to a gen 1 3.4 is not really even close when comparing to a gen 2 3.1 to a gen 3 3400. Using fiero injectors won't get him anywhere. Tunercat costs way too much considering freescan is free and tunerpro is free and A1 is fully supported for free.

[Joseph Upson]

It's just a suggestion based on a similar experience. The free stuff he's used so far "ain't" working and he's about to quit. TunercatRT is $120, to some that may be expensive but if he's willing to give it a try it's an option, certainly better than quitting. Whatever he decides to do, making table adjustments before the engine is able to idle or run at a desent rate will make tuning more difficult. Starting with injectors that match the A1 code settings and richening their flow rate as a starting point may help a great deal. I agree the 3400 and 3.1 are a far cry from one another but the principles on which they run are identicle and again, the typical approach is not working and he's about to quit, a perfect time to think outside the box.

[Alxsmt]

thanks guys, i will have to try that stuff.

i have sort of looked into tunercat, there website is confusing lol. and 120 is a bit much right now espically if i cant figure this out... tryin to get my car ready for this season of racing..

as for the fiero, i hope by the time i get that thing done (planning on turbo 3400) i will be able to tune it easily, or at least understand it a lot better

what injectors are for the a1 code?? what exact engine/year is that for? how you determine what code is for what? thats something that really confuses me. ive been going by what ive been told here and what i found here

[Joseph Upson]

thanks guys, i will have to try that stuff.

i have sort of looked into tunercat, there website is confusing lol. and 120 is a bit much right now espically if i cant figure this out... tryin to get my car ready for this season of racing..

as for the fiero, i hope by the time i get that thing done (planning on turbo 3400) i will be able to tune it easily, or at least understand it a lot better

what injectors are for the a1 code?? what exact engine/year is that for? how you determine what code is for what? thats something that really confuses me. ive been going by what ive been told here and what i found here

A1 is the binary program code in the chip and basically addresses a particular engine, in this case the Beretta V6 from around 90-92 range I believe. 8F which I use represents the Turbo Grand Prix engine programming. For starters you want the fuel injector flow rate to match what's in the program data on the same engine, if your fuel injectors flow 23 lb/hr and the rating in the programming is set to 16 lb/hr on an engine that requires 16 lb/hr injectors it may be to rich to even run when you attempt to crank it.

On the other hand, take the same 16 lb/hr rating in the chip and attempt to run a larger V6 engine say the 3400 with its proper sized injectors of about 22 lb/hr and it may work fine since the injector flow increased proportionally to the engine displacement in which case the pulse rate in the program may still be sufficient although the injector size does not match what's in the programming.

If you change the injector or engine size independent of eachother you will definately have to make changes, if you change the fuel pressure considerably you will have to tune for it.

Usually properly tuning in the injector size will help a good bit. If you really want to be successful at tuning at your level of understanding you need a wideband O2 setup because I don't feel you have enough experience with tuning to risk the guess work that goes along with tuning without one. Start with TunerproRT and get an ALDL connection so that you can verify your sensors are functioning properly, otherwise you'll be chasing your tale.

The sensors have to be working properly and no codes being set while idling after warm up.

This will help you although it's for the 8F code the principles are the same;

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/how-to-tune-tgp-code-t88684,highlight,tune+tgp+code.html

[SappySE107]

Using 22# injectors on a 16# chip won't work. 16/3.1 vs 22/3.4. The fuel constant is based on displacement and injector rating. I still see no reason to buy software that does nothing special compared to what is free, regardless of ability. It doesn't make it any easier. If you are using the complete A1, then yes, that is overwhelming and difficult to navigate. I have my own definition file with the most common values entered, and then I use the complete listing for the details (or have added them to my list if I use them a lot).

My 3400 swap chip would be a better investment than software, as its going to let it run and idle and on a stock 3400, it should be damn near perfect. I have never used a wide band O2 to tune either, other than the dyno. Unless you run a wide band with narrow band O2 output for the ECM all the time, i don't see much of a point in tuning on the street with the wide band. A good narrow band does what you need it to do for non WOT operation.

[Alxsmt]

so how well do u think our chip would run on my build?

and i do have an innovative wide band, its sittin in the box though lol

few qs.

1. how do i make sense of the fuel cut off for RPMs? it just lists a random number...
2. number of cylinders... it just has some random number..
(in tunerpro)

how do i make sense of this?

[SappySE107]

192 = 6 cylinders. 65xxx for RPM? There is no limiter for the 5 speed essentially.

With your mods, it should run but will have to be tweaked to be perfect. The injector constant and the throttle tip in should be where you need it but I haven't tuned a setup similar to know how far off it would be.

[bszopi]

65536 (8 * 8192) : I'm pretty sure there is a correlation between that and a HEX number (FFFF maybe?), but I can't remember what it is.