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  • #1

    Crazy knock

    Check this crap out. I have no clue what is going on here. The scan you see here is on the stock timing table AND a richer fueling. Look at how much KR there is. I pulled timing out of it on the way home, and I've attached that scan, too. It's not much better. What could possibly cause this? I'm hoping to do plugs and wires on this thing before too long. Not sure how many miles are on the plugs, though they look decent. Considering going to copper plugs, maybe one heat range cooler. Doing a cooler t-stat is out of the question, due to the labor involved. I think the wires are original. Car has 158,000 miles on it.

    Here are the scans: http://skillz524.homestead.com/files...mina_scans.zip (Right click, save as)
    \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

    1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
    1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
    1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Forgot to mention...this is in the Lumina with a 3100, and NO mods.
    \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

    1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
    1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
    1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

    Comment

    • #3
      Plugs and wires won't help a KR issue. Plus colder plugs are not needed on a stock engine. Instead, how old is your fuel filter?
      Your local OBDII moderator

      2000 Grand Am GT w/ WOT parts

      Comment

      • #4
        Good question, I guess. Hadn't thought about that. I'm not sure why I always overlook the little stuff. Did that with my Olds, too. I'll give it a shot, sure can't hurt. I've learned a fair bit about the DHP PowrTuner on the Olds, and am trying to apply that here, but if it's got problems like that, no amount of tuning will help.

        BTW, one more question...if the knock sensor fails, how would that manifest itself? And, could it cause these problems, too?
        \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

        1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
        1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
        1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

        Comment

        • #5
          It's a piezo sensor, so usually if it doesn't work you don't get any registered knock. Actually it wouldn't pick up any noise at all which would make me think it would trigger a DTC, but I'm not for sure.
          Your local OBDII moderator

          2000 Grand Am GT w/ WOT parts

          Comment

          • #6
            my knock sensor was bad and it pulled max knock retard alll the time!
            sigpic

            1993 Cavalier Z24, 3.1/3400 hybrid, crane 272 cam, LS6 springs,port and polish,2.5 exhaust to 80 series flowmaster,solid mounts

            Comment

            • #7
              Hmm. Mine definitely registers knock, but it's not max KR, either. I'm gonna give the fuel filter a shot...it won't hurt anyways. Also, today, I smelled that notorious rotten egg smell, though it was mild. May pull the cat, and put a test pipe in its place, too.
              \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

              1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
              1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
              1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

              Comment

              • #8
                Update on this thing...

                OK, here's what has been done now. I removed the cat, as it was plugged pretty good. That did nothing. I am now back on the stock timing tables, too. I changed the fuel filter tonight. It helped for a couple minutes, then it was back to knockin'. It comes and goes. I can't explain it at all. This is just really weird.

                If it is any help, I am using some 22-25% throttle to cruise between 55 and 60. I usually see around 10% for 70mph in my Olds!!! There is a lot of backpressure it seems. I intend to remove the resonator, and change the muffler, too. I'm kinda starting to get irritated.
                \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

                1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
                1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
                1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

                Comment

                • #9
                  tttt
                  \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

                  1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
                  1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
                  1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I noticed something today. I put gas in the car, and it seems somewhat better. Going to log it tonight to verify. I've been running in the bottom quarter of the tank for a while. It's at 3/4 tank now. Does that kind of seem to point to a weak fuel pump?
                    \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

                    1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
                    1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
                    1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Well, with less gas in the tank you will run your pump hotter. If its not pushing the volume you need but still has the pressure, you will eventually have a problem with it wanting to run at all under load. I didn't have a scanner back when my pump died to give you any ideas though for if it had KR before that point.
                      Ben
                      60DegreeV6.com
                      WOT-Tech.com

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        i wonder if my pump is going hmm, after a lil bit of my car warming up my car would drive but it'd have no power when u gave it gas
                        sigpic

                        1993 Cavalier Z24, 3.1/3400 hybrid, crane 272 cam, LS6 springs,port and polish,2.5 exhaust to 80 series flowmaster,solid mounts

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          I don't mean to insult you, but I prefer to write to this like you have no idea what to do about his.. so...

                          Where do you usually fill up? Bad gas isn't rare, it's common for retailers to opt for lower quality fuel to save a few pennies on the gallon. From now on, stick to a trusted retailer with a quality product.
                          Knock could be due to increased compression as a result of carbon deposits in the combustion chamber. These deposits get very hot, and ignite the fuel before the spark does. This excessive knock has the potential to do catastrophic damage to your motor!! Run higher octane fuel and you'll notice a difference. Higher octane fuel burns a little slower.
                          When you do the tune up, remove the plugs and spray, directly into the combustion chambers, an 02 safe decarbonizer, varnish/gum deposit remover. Even throttle body cleaner. Get two cans...fill those cylinders! don't be cheap, this is your car here. Do this before you change the oil.
                          Let the solution sit in the combustion chambers for a while, and in the meantime do something else, like clean battery connections, ground wires, whatever.
                          Disable your ignition and injectors and crank the motor... best to put some kind of towel over the motor as the detergent will shoot out the plug holes.
                          This will loosen up a lot of crap from inside the combustions chambers.. just watch what comes out. Then change your oil. Once your back on the road, make a few accelerations to help clear out any loosened debris. You need to continue running a high grade fuel for a few tanks, and even run one bottle of detergent to remove any remaining deposits loosened by the initial decarbonizing. Eventually, switch to a mid-grade fuel. and finally regular from a trusted retailer that you know has 87 octane fuel with the right amount of detergents.
                          You really should spend a few bucks on a fuel pressure test kit. It will be a valuable tool. You'll have to test your fuel pressure to determine pump health.
                          Just remember that running your tank near empty is NO good for the pump, which relies on gas to cool and lubricate it. Your pump is probablly in need of replacement as they do loose efficiency, they dont just work and then die all the time.
                          The rotten egg smell (hydrogen sulfied) is an indication of a rich mixture, caused either by an engine managment sytem not going into closed loop, (coolant or 02 sensor, stuck open thermostat), plugged PCV valve, or excessive fuel pressure from a faulty regulator.
                          Clean your motor for good measure, check your pump, and go over these basic systems and you'll be golden.
                          Hope this bible of a reply yeilded some useful information, especially the relationship between cheap low octane fuel, high-milage engines, and the resulting carbon deposits that cause knock. Combustion chamber deposits by the way, increase when for example you have a plugged PCV valve, as it's main funtion is to prevent blow-by.

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