Turbos...oil restrictions...etc

[nocutt]

I will bite...
This is not a flame fest...and will ask the moderators to shut the string down if this thing spirals in any shape of form...
...I just wanted members who have turbocharged GMv6 chime in and let us know what your setup is in regards to oil restriction (via pills or oil filters). Provide your oil pressure at warm idle, WOT and what type of oil (wt) used.

This string is more of a continuation of Raven thread here: http://60degreev6.com/discussion/vie...=9305&start=50
in which Germ asserted GM3400 v6 have a very high oil pressure and most turbo'd v6 need to use a pill or some form of restriction.

Anywayz to continue...germ I build turbos as a hobby and work in close proximity on ALL westcoastfiero's turbocharged projects. Like I told you, we might end up arguing about semantics...'half ppl use 'em...another half don't'...not so...Genuinely some ppl do, some don't...GT turbos with non-journal bearing certaingly do...it is only inherent in their design...journal technically don't...some ppl do indeed push more pressure than others but directly related to other issues than what we are talking about. We are talking 3X00 GMv6s...and I have never come across one leaving the Shop with a pill. So I am pretty confident that if the feed line is per spec and so is the drain line...oh and the turbo
Now can you pls provide us (me) with the oil pressure that you have vehemently taking a stand on...what is your oil pressure...and what is the 3X00 V6 oil pressure?...also what oil wt are you using...[/url]

[Kohburn]

a restrictor simply limits flow based on the pressure coming from the engine...

that flow inside the turbo housing doesn't become pressure untill it meets a restriction .. if you actually have the specifications for the turbo bearing then you can see what the flow its calling for and control that by your feed line size or with a simple restrictor (does the exact same thing as using a smaller feed line)

personally i went with a function7 -4AN feed adaptor with a 1/16" hole



the gt ballbearing turbos include a built in .060" restrictor and don't need an additional restrictor.. many do not include one and rely on the feel line size or an aditional restrictor -- 1/16" is .0625" basicly the same as the built in restrictor of the GT balbearing turbos..

if you used a 1/16" restrictor on a GT ballbearing turbo - it would have NO EFFECT... none at all.. neither possative or negative -- unless the turbo requires more flow than that then people using a 1/16" restrictor on a turbo that they don't know if it ha a build in restrictor or not is just being safe and is not harmful

[germ]

i never said that all turbo's require an oil restrictor, just the one in ravens setup. he is using a knock off turbo, that is commonly sold by SSAutoChrome on ebay. they use a knockoff of the KKK/Borg Warner K26/K27 CHRA with Garrett spec'd wheels and housings.

i have a good deal of turbo knowledge myself, who has the best creditials has very little to do with this.

i feel that hands on experience and trial and error can show plenty.

and i have used a few of these turbo's and 1 has blown due to to much oil pressure. it was checked out by a reputable local desiel and turbo rebuild shop. i put a restrictor on the next ones and never had the issue again. and ive been driving the car for some time now.

tejohnson also has a turbo like ravens, he uses an oil restrictor from www.atpturbo.com as i mentioned before, he does not have any issues from his turbo and he has been turbo'd as weel for some time now as well.


i dont know what to tell you about oil pressure #'s. i dont have an oil pressure guage hooked up yet. i bought one, just to check the turbo inlet pressure along with the restrictor, and i put the restrictor on and never had an issue, so the oil pressure gauge was never hooked up. however, it will be working when i am completed with my newest setup.

as for oil, i use mobil-1. winter months i use Synthetic 5-30, summer i use the Synthetic Racing Oil by mobil-1

[nocutt]

a restrictor simply limits flow based on the pressure coming from the engine...

that flow inside the turbo housing doesn't become pressure untill it meets a restriction .. if you actually have the specifications for the turbo bearing then you can see what the flow its calling for and control that by your feed line size or with a simple restrictor (does the exact same thing as using a smaller feed line)

personally i went with a function7 -4AN feed adaptor with a 1/16" hole

LOL...a fiero freak, what's going on? Tired of the mello drama on pennocks

I agree with you 99.9%... "the 3400 pushes to much oil pressure for the turbo. www.atpturbo.com has the correct one you would need. its the smallest they offer. if you dont put a restrictor on, i bet the turbo will fail in 1week to 3 months before you will need to buy a new one or have it rebuild with new seals. a $10 part now will save you $300 later on."
so paraphrasing what I understand he meant 'all 3X00 v6s need one when turbocharged'...is there a basis to said statement or is every 3X00 v6 indeed a high oil pressured engine?
...Kohburn from your point, if traffic is moving in a 3 way lane (highway: analogous to the pressure line) and an accident ensues on one lane (restriction) it is the same effect if we had two lanes prior to the accident in terms of oil frequency!!...isn't this 'restriction' another restriction...in which case you reduce volume of oil?
I cannot agree, because we first have to agree what sizes hose meet our specification in the first place? right? based on this we can be rest assured that our turbo gets maximum oil needed at all times...a single hic-cup at high RPMs (where bearing and shaft clearances are solemnly dependent on this oil) could be and is disasterous...why limit the flow if you can run the right size in the first place. Also a restrictor can potentially create a restriction if dirt ever lodges in it ( I know I am reaching now, but the point still stands )...

In my own experiences, the biggest issues I have ran across personally are...* Air filter too dirty: this will cause a situation whereby oil is pulled into the compressor housing due to partial vacuum within the aforementioned. * A non-functioning PCV system...if crankcase has a pressure build up, then oil from the drain line pushes oil into the CHRA and a bad turbo or better yet, worn out seals. * Finally, kinked lines or anything which prevents drainage into oil pan...

[Doubt_Incarnate]

i personaly think 8x psi of oil pressure for a stock 3400 is rather high. maybe 5x is more realistic. according to the chevy performance handbook 660 pumps can supply constant 80psi if modified as they describe, but do not in stock form. this involves a certain spring (whick only ups it to 70psi) to increase the pressure, and milling and such for closer tolerances. granted they may have changed that for newer motors but still it takes more power to generate and maitain 8x psi than 5x so i dont think its likely.

as stated before pressure is generated by restriction, so if the turbo is in spec it should regulate its own oil pressure with its bearing tolerances or its internal design. it hardly makes sense, to me anyways, not to design it as such.

[nocutt]

Darn Germ that is quick...
This is exactly my point...I know you mutually and I am not trying to berate you or anything like that...'fact is fact' no matter how it is sliced or diced...credentials do mean a lot whether it is professional or arquired thru unorthodox means...I don't get paid for work I do, nor do I have a certificate/degree on this...so I also acquired knowledge from the latter...heck most ppl here do...the issue is my friend, we are for the most part caught up in our own world we seldom think outside our box. I do it too...throw out my own experiences as facts...this is only true in my application. If the oil pressure on the 3X00 V6 is unknown to you at this moment or in the past then saying "the 3400 pushes to much oil pressure for the turbo" is very misleading...just in terms of accumulated information is concerned. It is indeed plausible, however there are just other variables that make the statement not "hold enough water"... hope you overstand...

personaly think 8x psi of oil pressure for a stock 3400 is rather high. maybe 5x is more realistic

...my fault on that...that was edited earlier after reading, typo...

[timg]

Pretty sure that Garrett GT series ball bearing turbos don't have an internal restrictor. I've never heard of that before and every GT series dealer I've talked with recommends one.

From Garrett's website:
"Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended if you have oil pressure over about 60 psig. The oil outlet should be plumbed to the oil pan above the oil level (for wet sump systems). Since the oil drain is gravity fed, it is important that the oil outlet points downward, and that the drain tube does not become horizontal or go “uphill” at any point."

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech101.html?#t101_3

I have 40k miles on a T04E 60 trim with no oil restrictor. It doesn't smoke or have any problems. This is on my LQ1.

Tim

[nocutt]

I personally saw a cut-out of a GT35 and they have internal restrictors Tim. This does not mean you should not run the proper inlet oil pressure to meet specs...

Edit: Reads carefully

http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/oil%20inlet.htm

...I can throw several more instances on here...but the easiest way is to call precision or any of your favorite vendors/dealers and ask casually...(you don't want to come off like you intend to run without one, have problems later down the road and want them to pay for 'a warranty'...tradesecrets my friend...)