Turbo 3.1!

[Jcrow]

Hello all, I am new here. I plan to turbocharge my '89 Cutlass. It is a 3.1. I have a rebuilt turbo from a grand national. I also have a giant volvo intercooler. I am stumped whether to use an fmu, and walbro pump. Or an additional injector setup. Or to get a custom chip made from a turbo grand prix code with the egr deactivated (Turbo grand prix's had a different type of egr) and 22lb/hr injectors (Turbo grand prix size).
Anyone have any suggestions or experience in this?

[Doubt_Incarnate]

that turbo is probably capable of a good deal of boost, enough to destroy your motor, but if you do it right, it should be ok. you seem to have a good idea of what you need.
the turbine housing maybe to big, im not sure, i dont know much about gn's other than they kick ass.
if you search around the forum youll find that most people say the motor is only good for like 8 psi, thats a 54% increase in displacment, nothing i'd sneeze at.
as far a add-on injectors, that would be pretty tricky. your better off with the bigger injectors and a fmu, for tuneability. as far as programing goes. you can get a msd boost retard timing thing and it should be fine. i hear the tgp ecu/chip is one tough egg to crack.

[TurboSedan]

i'm turbocharging the original previously NA '91 3.1L V6 in my '91 Cutlass Supreme right now. i bought a complete blown TGP engine from a TSTE, and all of the TGP turbo specific parts are being used in the Cutlass - the TGP wiring harness, TGP radiator & intercooler, exhaust manifolds, rebuilt TGP crossover pipe, downpipe, plenum, 22# injectors etc etc. i'm using a custom memcal with TGP EPROM code modified for use with a 5-speed.

i'll probably only run 8psi-10psi max with the stock TGP Garrett T25. if i wanted to run higher boost i'd probably go with '99+ 3x00 top-end, low compression pistons, an adjustable zeiner diode off the MAP sensor so as to not hit fuel cut....turbo, hell i don't know....maybe just a Super 60 T3 with a .63 A/R turbine. i'm not sure if i'd use a 7th injector or bigger injectors with an AFPR/FMU.

[Froggx]

The tgp code is easy to crack...
$30 at www.gmpcm.com
$50 for a memcal programmer and a blank chip or two
and start coding

[TurboSedan]

The tgp code is easy to crack...
$30 at www.gmpcm.com
$50 for a memcal programmer and a blank chip or two
and start coding

exactly what i'm planning on doing - using GMPCM software and PP2 using EEPROMs. Mick seems to be an extremely helpful person. i already have a Mastach ALDL cable, now i just need a laptop PC and get the car back together lol. god910 is doing my first memcal and then i'll be learning from there....

[Froggx]

The tgp code is easy to crack...
$30 at www.gmpcm.com
$50 for a memcal programmer and a blank chip or two
and start coding

exactly what i'm planning on doing - using GMPCM software and PP2 using EEPROMs. Mick seems to be an extremely helpful person. i already have a Mastach ALDL cable, now i just need a laptop PC and get the car back together lol. god910 is doing my first memcal and then i'll be learning from there....

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, an ALDL cable would be helpful too, I think mine was $20 from Mastach.

[Jcrow]

Thanks for the tips, I will look into all my options before starting. The grand national turbo is .60/.63 A/R ratios. According to the turbo map it should work.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

explain to me how to read turbo maps, i dont hink i quite get it.

a "60" trim t3 flows like about 335cfm, thats not enough to put much fun in, even a 2.8 flows like 240. but is it flowing 335 compressed to 2.00pr? whick is like 670 at normal atmosphere. i figured there had to be something to compress agianst. like for 2.00 on my 2.8 id need like 500.

[Jcrow]

I dont remember now, but It explains it nicely in the book "maximum boost" by corky bell

[Doubt_Incarnate]

ive ben through it a few times, it looks to me like im retarded, if you say the gn turbo is a 60/63. i had one from a xr4ti i thought was too small so i sold it. it also was 60/63.

[Froggx]

well, you have to look at the size of the compressor and turbine in addition to the size of the housings, that can make a big difference in size, and don't forget size is all relative, smaller sizes just means it will spool faster so more power on the bottom end and less on the top end, big sizes means it takes longer to spool so more lag and less bottom end power but more top end power

[Jcrow]

Certain Ford 2.3 stick shift turbos are the 60/63, the automatic trans turbos are smaller. I've heard the stock grand national turbo is undersized. So I figure undersized for a 3.8 is probably a good size for a 3.1.
I also think the great low end torque of a 3.1 and lousy top end would be a perfect match for a turbo. By the time the low-end torque runs out the turbo will be spooling up!

[Doubt_Incarnate]

im still looking at the book....
their example. 12 psi 302 sbf = 1.82pr * 408cfm = 743cfm of air to meet demand.

2.8L=240cfm @6Krpm (smaller than3.1, keep in mind)
@12psi=437cfm, "60 trim" T3 turbo=335cfm.
@10psi=404cfm, still not enough air from "60"
@8psi=370, still not big enough,
@5psi=322cfm, we have a winner!

thats for a 2.8, on a 3.1 it looks like you'd get almost nothing.

now look at the 2.3ohc turbocoupe motor a "60 trim" turbo is in.

2.3L=162cfm@5K
15psi=2.02pr
162x2.02=328cfm

Its good for that motor, but not so good for ours. it'll work, 5psi is 34% bigger motor(2.8L!), but i'm still not (probably never) going to belive these guys that say it can push 12psi to the redline, more like 2K.

not trying to burst any bubbles, just trying to show things as my eyes see it, but hey, maybe im still wrong, sometimes 2+2=5.

[Jcrow]

Well, I dont know. But it works on a 3.8. The grand national turbo I think is sort of a T3/T4 combo. It has an odd-ball compressor wheel