Iron-head 2.8MPFI Turbo Install / 85 Celebrity

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

When you connected to the battery did you just use spring loaded clamps, or did you actually make proper connections? I have found many times that using spring loaded clamps on some devices, especially sensitive electronics, that draw more than an ampere, will cause issues, or at least not properly verify a change.

If the amplifier is rated to draw more than 10 amperes, run a battery line to the battery directly and install an appropriately sized fuse at the battery. I have found in many cases that while an issue may not show up initially using another point, eventually one will show up, due to increased resistance in the power supply (voltage drop) over using a dedicated power wire. Grounding to some thick metal in the kick panel is ideal, for you amplifier location, though I will also suggest moving it to a more ventilated location, if the actual power output is anything over about 100W. An amplifier that puts out 100W will usually take in about 200W and that's a LOT of power dissipation in the form of heat to try and deal with.

Does the amp normally go into protect mode for a few seconds at power on? Many amplifiers do, until all of the system checks are done and pass.

Just a quick update. Been busy!

The amp does normally go into Protect at powerup, for about 10 seconds. This is normal according to the manual.

The battery is trunk mounted. I ran the 'temporary' amplifier test power leads to the trunk and terminated them on the power studs for the battery + and - points. This was directly at the battery on a 3/8 stud post. The wires were clamped between washers and I am sure there was a very solid connection.

The problem is related to the mount of time the amp turn-on signal is OFF before being returned to an ON state. If the amp turn-on signal is removed and re-applied too quickly, it will cause the problem I am having.

Cranking the engine takes only about a second (the HEI ignition system lights off almost instantly). This is a short OFF cycle to the amp turn-on signal. I can 'provoke' this problem by powering the radio off and back on briefly; or cycling the ignition off and back on briefly.

If I 'hold' the key in 'start' longer than necessary to ignite the engine (yeah bad for the starter I know!) the radio will play normally after the start.

Looks like I need to install a timing relay to give the system a minimum OFF time during startup.

Other than the radio problem, the car is running like a top. I drove it from my hometown to Memphis (about 3.5 hours each way) and it ran great. The only remaining tuning is to dial-in the torque converter clutch lockup speeds. With the 440T4 trans, the lockup is supposed to happen between 3rd and 4th gears. So you have to tune the ECM to apply it in this band of speed / throttle positions so that it feels correct. The ECM program I started with was originally for a 700R4 equipped vehicle so the factory luckup times were not very good for the 440T4.

It's about time to burn a permanent chip and send this one home!

Sincerely,
David

[Purple pit]

Damn, guess this is the end.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Damn, guess this is the end.

Don't be sad, it's not the end. It's a new beginning for a car that was 'one wheel in the junkyard' and now has a new lease on life.

This was almost the end:



This is the new beginning:



I'll be doing more builds. My next one won't be a 60°V6, though. It will be a Buick V6 / 4T80E build.

As for the radio problem, I have not been able to get any support from Clarion. Will be installing a time relay to the accessory power circuit and will report back here if this solves the problem.

Sincerely,
David

[Guest]

Just a thought, try unplugging the inputs from the amp, I have a suspicion...

There's zero reason why you should have this issue. I have never had a problem like this with a Clarion (or any other amp) and I've installed plenty of Clarion amplifiers without issue.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Just a thought, try unplugging the inputs from the amp, I have a suspicion...

There's zero reason why you should have this issue. I have never had a problem like this with a Clarion (or any other amp) and I've installed plenty of Clarion amplifiers without issue.

Yeah, I also think there's no reason for this nonsense!

Because of the way I made an adapter harness out of factory harnesses, I can't connect only the amp turn-on without connecting the audio input. This is because it's all in one connector on the factory radio.

One other test I did, was to bypass the "accessory" switch so that the radio stayed powered on during engine cranking. There was a 'strange noise' on the speakers (not loud, but you could hear the starting motor over the speakers). But the amp would never lock up. So it's not voltage drop on the power wires.

I am thinking possibly, when the radio headunit powers down, it sends out an abnormal signal on the audio output. This trips the amp into protect mode. Then the cranking cycle is not long enough to allow the amp to reset before power is reapplied.

I've about got the relay installed, which will cause a 3-second minimum off-time whenever the starter is engaged.

[Purple pit]

Sure turned out to be a diamond in the ruff. Very happy that you saved it! Sad because the next build is not a 60(somehow I knew it wouldn't be).

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Sure turned out to be a diamond in the ruff. Very happy that you saved it! Sad because the next build is not a 60(somehow I knew it wouldn't be).

Thanks!

Some might say I'm an engine whore. I like all them no matter if they are Chevy, Buick, Caterpillar (I work for them), or even gas turbine engines. If it burns fuel and makes power, I like it. Big and loud are a plus.

Next build will be posted on the Buick forums, but I may cross post it here in the off topic area.

Sincerely,
David

[Guest]

Yeah, I also think there's no reason for this nonsense!

Because of the way I made an adapter harness out of factory harnesses, I can't connect only the amp turn-on without connecting the audio input. This is because it's all in one connector on the factory radio.

One other test I did, was to bypass the "accessory" switch so that the radio stayed powered on during engine cranking. There was a 'strange noise' on the speakers (not loud, but you could hear the starting motor over the speakers). But the amp would never lock up. So it's not voltage drop on the power wires.

I am thinking possibly, when the radio headunit powers down, it sends out an abnormal signal on the audio output. This trips the amp into protect mode. Then the cranking cycle is not long enough to allow the amp to reset before power is reapplied.

I've about got the relay installed, which will cause a 3-second minimum off-time whenever the starter is engaged.

Yep, that exactly what I was thinking, that the amp is seeing an issue with the input, which is a signal issue from the radio.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Here is a video which better explains the radio amp problem and the solution I used.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Yep, that exactly what I was thinking, that the amp is seeing an issue with the input, which is a signal issue from the radio.

It had a pop over the speakers during the power-on phase, without the delay. Now there is no pop.

By the way; looking at your signature, do you have a build thread for your boosted cars?

Sincerely,
David

[Purple pit]

I would love to see a gas turbine build.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Zero to sixty in about 5 seconds....

I would love to see a gas turbine build.

So would I!!! That would be badass beyond belief. Especially in one of our lightweight cars.

Here is one more performance video of Project Camilla. I got an OK 0-60 time this time. Would have been better with more traction but hay it's street tires and I am no race driver.

In the first video, the transmission was shifting out way too early. This video is after it has been adjusted.

Sincerely,
David

[Purple pit]

Really starting to want a turbo now. Sure wrapped up nice!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Really starting to want a turbo now. Sure wrapped up nice!

Thanks.

I am happy with the drivability and power balance of this one.

The magic of any build is in the tune. A person can buy the most expensive turbo in the world and bolt it on. But, it won't do anything for you if you can't get everything to "jee-haw" together like it should. Make sure and be prepared for a good tuning session after you go with boost! Be prepared to mate the ECM calibration, transmission shift points, torque converter stall speed and lockup points, cooling system, fans, electrical system and every part of the car together. This is the only way to get perfect drivability.

But you SHOULD go turbo. Once turbo, no turning back.

Sincerely,
David

[Purple pit]

Damn, you make it seem so easy.