Iron-head 2.8MPFI Turbo Install / 85 Celebrity

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Here is a thread I am working on at a-body dot net. I'm putting to use a turbo system pulled from a Pontiac Grand Prix Turbo I found at the junkyard. I wanted to buy the whole car, but it was a Pull-A-Part so they wouldn't even talk to me about that.

Meet Camilla. She's about to get some attention in the way of a transmission repair, new fuel pump, and turbo system! After her transmission started to show signs of needing a rebuild, she was parked and only started every now and then. After a while, the fuel pump failed and she has been sleeping for the 2 or 3 years since. A few months past, I visited her previous owner and looked at her. Her new owner had her shipped from Florida to Alabama for some work.


The transport driver pulling up at my barn. One lonely car left out of the load. Last stop before heading home for the driver.


A little tree sap and mildew!




The engine is a very rare early iron-head fuel injected 2.8V6. You don't see very many of these.





After a little time with the pressure wash, the mildewed tree sap and underhood leafpile are things of the past!







The interior will need major work, but that's another day:









The first order of business will be the "awakening" of the 2.8 engine. Owner sent the new fuel pump, brake parts and a few other odds and ends to my local Advance Auto Parts store. Once I finish my other obligations, this will be first thing that gets worked on.

Once the car is running, I will test out the transmission and see what sort of problems there are. I was told the trans slips; however at this time it won't even hold in park. Never seen that one before honestly.

Stay tuned!

Sincerely,
David

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Today I'm working on the fuel pump situation. Pulled the car in the barn and dropped the tank. It had a half-tank of old fuel in it. The fuel was an alcohol blend so it drew water from the air. Nasty mess! To make a long story short, I had to pressure-wash the inside of the tank. While that's drying out, I'll post some pictures!

Not rusty at all. Nice Southern car! Jut a few nuts and squirrel nests.


A little blast with the pressure washer and it's all good!


ˇAye Caramba! that is one nasty fuel pump. Notice anything else strange? The strainer is on backwards. Just like my Turbo Sedan, someone changed the pump and they installed the strainer incorrectly. I'm sure that accelerated the demise of the original pump.


Sender assembly cleaned up and modified for the new Airtex turbine pump.


New pump and strainer in place. Note the orientation of the strainer!


All clean inside after a little blasting with the pressure wash.


Note to self: Plastic baffles are not pressure-washer-proof. It'll be ok though.


Vacuum drying the water out of the tank.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Pump in the tank, with new alcohol-compatible hose in place. The original setup had a filter with an o-ring fitting on one end and a hose barb on the other. I converted this one to use the normal filters with the o-ring fitting on each end.


Hose routing so the pressure hose won't kink. The original hose was a molded hose.


Another view.


And... she runs! The engine ran a little rough at first because of the injectors. But after 10 or 15 minutes of running, it smoothed out. The exhaust system is rotten to pieces and it sounds like a genuine Redneck Ride!

I was going to take a breif test drive, however the brakes are locking up and dragging. So no test drive for now. If I can get brakes done today there COULD be a video of driving it.

More to come...

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

She looks good David! Her older sister (my '84) misses her a little, but I'm glad she's getting the attention I couldn't give.

I know that feeling. Hopefully you'll get some inspiration from seeing this one get fixed up, and get that 84 in top shape! I remember seeing it when I visited y'all this winter.

Hopefully I can get the kinks worked out before long and move onto the turbo build.

.....That's pretty interesting about the brakes too, I'm surprised I hadn't subscribed to your youtube channel earlier. Was the original plan for overhauling the brakes to replace the hoses as well? Or is that a new addition to your project?

It was in the original plan. Based on what I've learned from restoring cars that have been "sleeping" for a very long time; I recommended the following parts to be replaced as a matter of course:

All 4 flexible hoses
Rear hardware
Rear shoes
Rear wheel cylinders

I got the brakes "almost" done today. I say almost because I didn't get the rear hoses yet. Everything else is good.

It was a good guess because as the video showed, the front left hose was plugged. The front right hose was not correct for the car and it was rubbing. The rear brakes..... woo they speak for themselves.....







Not only were they rusted up, leaking on the left side, and full of spider webs - the brake shoe pads were worn 90% almost to the metal!
Looks a little better with the new parts in place!









Also got a correct battery installed. One that is functional and the hood will close over. The ignition coil bracket is in place as is the battery disconnect switch. Looking more like a functional car again!



I hope to take a brief test-drive tomorrow, but there is a tire issue. One of the car's tires was blowed out, so another rim with a "good" tire was installed to load the car on the transport truck. Turns out, the lug spacing and hub diamater are not correct for this car and it is not in any way roadworthy. If I can get a used tire put on the correct rim tomorrow, then I can test drive it. Otherwise it's going to be parked in my NEW covered parking area while I work on other obligations.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

OK a micro-update on Camilla - only one new picture.

As you know the Celebrity has been discontinued for more than 10 years. Hood pads are scarcer than hen's teeth (as my grandma would say) so I have been looking for one for this car since it got here.

Finally found one, but it was less than perfect. I mixed up a half-can of polyester resin with acetone and hardener, to make a very watery mix. I brushed this heavily onto the hood pad, to help re-bind the somewhat frayed material.

It worked. The pad is strong again but there are still visible defects.

But it's a HECK of a lot better than the old one!

Old one:



New one:



Notice the mercury switch lamp still works. I had to make a bracket for this, because the later-model Celeb had a different type lamp mounted slightly different position. The cutout in the hood pad was in the wrong place.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Allright! Today I did a little work on Camila.

Turned on the battery disconnect switch and she started right up! The transmission has got no better by its self, but in spite of that I made one last spin around the block before the build.

I had planned to try to do the build in stages. But she's so sick at this point, I would just be wasting time. The radiator was rotten and full of rusty water. Out with that and the ratty wiring. In its place, I have a later-model radiator with right-side trans cooler. This is better because the trans is cooled by water that is on the cold end of the radiator.

New(er) stuff:


Making room for removal of the powertrain, I pulled the A/C fan motor. It was full. So is the evaporator case. This will have to come out for cleaning when the engine is out.




Now, the pile of parts is growing!


Hope to (at least) get the powertrain out before I go back to work again. Stay tuned!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Well, got good news / less-good-news! Good news is, I got some of the transmission sub-assemblies overhauled and ready to go back together. The less-good-news (for you guys) is.... I got called out to work so Camilla will be on hold for a while.

Second gear clutch basket with new piston seals ready for new clutch discs. I don't have the discs yet.


Input and third clutch assembly with new seals and clutch discs installed.


The old piston seals. These get hard and brittle, then the transmission has delayed engagement and slipping problems.


Another broken accumulator spring! GM's spring supplier must have had a bad month when this one was built. Actually this is a known problem with these transmissions. The kit comes with new springs, plus spacers that keep the springs from over-compressing.


New ones should be beter.


This spacer protects the springs from over-compressing.


Reverse band. No idea what's so "maji" about it! I guess if it breaks, your Reverse 'magically' stops working.


Governors. This is connected to the final drive by a spiral gear. The faster the car goes, the faster the governor spins. The faster it spins, the higher the centrifugal force on the weights. This gives the transmission a rising hydraulic pressure signal as the speed rises. This is how it 'knows' when to shift.

The one on the LEFT is from this transmission. It has the speedometer drive gear. The governor top cap has the speedometer cable connection point. The other one is from a newer car. It has the electronic speed sensor instead of the speedometer gears. Notice the stripped off gear? This is because the thrust bearing was left out of the transmission. It let the governor ride up and bind on the cap. Then the plastic gear was the weak link. The round part between the green gear and the cap (on the left one) is the bearing that was left off the stripped one.


The charge pump. It's very important to the transmission. It provides hydraulic pressure to operate the clutches, and it provides lubrication oil to the moving parts.


This screen protects the valve body from any trash that gets past the filter.


This board with a hole gives me a place to set it without breaking the screen.


Cover off pump. Needs the rubber parts changed.


All clean and with new rubber parts.


Ready to go!


Most of the trans parts all cleaned and ready for re-assembly!


Got to get the last few parts here before it goes back together!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

OK got a small update on Project Camilla today!

While I was out of town, the (hopefully) last of the transmission parts came in.

That would be the lined and steel plates for the 2nd clutch.



This set has thinner steel plates, and more plates for a stronger clutch. It has 7 plates. The original 1985 trans had 5.



Then I started re-assembly of the transmission. First thing is the final drive. The old one was a high gear (large sun gear, left one) the new one is a 3.33 with hardened shaft (note the black color pinion cross shaft).

The ratio will give more torque multiplication in every gear, as well as put the power to the ground without over-stressing the transmission.



But, when I started to re-assemble it, I found the entire final drive would go up and down. There is a bushing in the trans case that supports it. Apparently the car from which this trans came from had broken motor mounts. This let the right side CV shaft ride on the frame of the car. That put a tremendous upward pressure on the final drive. This is the result:

Bushing worn down to the steel:


New and old bushings side-by-side


Old bushing installed on a final drive. Look at the huge gap!


New bushing in case:


Final drive in case. Nice and precise fit.


Now, the remainder of the geartrain and clutches go in.


Maybe tomorrow I can make some more progress!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

I got started today by driving to town and getting the last of the transmission parts. Got the end pan gasket and the filter. This completes the transmission!


It's time to start making a preliminary assembly of the engine's accessories. I always like to assemble everything ahead of time before getting the engine finally ready. This helps keep from damaging the engine by getting grinding grit in it, and having to re-do things many times after taking all the time to put it together 'for good.'

This car had a DA6 air conditioner compressor. These are failure prone, and don't work as well as the newer V5 systems. So I planned to exhcange the compressor for a V5. I salvaged the pulley off the extremely destroyed DA6 compressor. It is junk. It got so hot the label melted and bubbled! There is only one way for this to happen. Somehow one or more safety switches did not work.


Installed an old V5 compressor (as a mock-up) with the vee-belt pulley. It allows for mocking up the system. The mounting bracket has a different offset for the V5, so some bushings had to be made. Also got the 140A CS144 alternator installed. The V5 compressor and the CS144 eliminate 2 common failure points on the early cars.




Now to get the old manifold off. I just cut the old manifold studs with plasma torch. No point in fighting them. The entire exhaust system is rusted to pieces.


The McLaren system rear manifold fit; but not without modification. It was designed for an aluminum-head engine. The manifold bolts spacing was different. So I had to slot the holes on the manifold. The bolts are temporary, too long and spaced with nuts for mock-up.


Got the turbo and crossover installed:


Now the upper downpipe, bracket, and the lower downpipe.
It is official. There's no turning back. The engine of Camilla is officially turbocharged.


Now that I have a mockup of the engine layout, I can fine-tune a few of the brackets and other details. Once it's all sorted, everything can come off so the engine gets washed. Then I have to separate the engine and transmission. Once that's done, the new high-volume oilpump can go in, as well as inspecting the bearings.

While the oilpan is off the engine, I can drill the turbo oil return without worrying that metal chips stay in the oilpan.

Ewww Fram oil filter!! That steering rack is jacked up. A new reman one is definitely in order. Also noticed the O2 sensor looks like a Bosch one. Two seperate drive belts, hope those aren't too tough to remove.

It actually has 3 belts. One for the steering pump and waterpump, one for the alternator and waterpump (waterpump gets driven by 2 belts), and one belt for the compressor. The steering belt is a pain because of the location of the pump. The good news is, it isn't under a lot of stress and that one usually lasts a long time.

The oxygen sensor is junk. It was corroded. I got a new filter because will have to change the oil etc. when put in new oilpump.

You got some serious working space and equipment in your barn there, David. The kind that makes any vehicle work so much easier. One day I will have that space to work in!

Thanks, yes I'm fortunate to have a place like this. I used to do my projects in a dort-floor barn without doors. This is worlds ahead. Plus it's only 8 miles from my parents house.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Finally nice to see the transmission complete! Whew!

Nice to see the motor out of the car...hopefully the bearings once the oil pan is removed are in good shape. Would be a good idea to replace the CTS sensor in the thermostat housing too since everything is out.

Well.... they are not 'failed' but there is visible corrosion. They are very cheap and it's easy to change them now. I did change the ones on my Ciera XC and happy that I did. Pictures later.

Three belts...reminds me of the '84 Olds ID I used to have...the one that gave me the most problem was the PS belt since the pulley was off center and therefore wore out the alternator belt. Don't know how old those belts are but if they need replacement then best to do so while everything is out and easy to access.

That reminds me....since I will be ordering a better set of the oil pressure (electric) and boost gauge, would have to insure the proper sending units are in place for those as well. I admit i'm a bit addicted to gauges (driving semis with tons of gauges for everything you can think of)...lol.

The A/C belt was missing and I pieced one together for a size gauge. It will have to be bought. Since the V5 compressor is slightly 'fatter' than the original; it needs a shorter belt. If not, it will be very close to the radiator. The shorter belt helps it stay tucked in close to the engine.

The oil pressure gauge sender will take the place of one of the currently-installed pressure switches. The boost guage has no sender, it just has a tube connected to the manifold. Air pressure actuates it.

Camilla is at last officially turbocharged! I like the sound of that!!

Me too!!! :rock:

EDIT: With the original old manifold gone along with the corroded O2 sensor, I am guessing that the sensor won't be needed for the turbo system? Would be good if that was the case, since the O2 sensor location is somewhat a pain to reach with the motor in the car. My wagon has that same location with that sensor.

There's a port on the turbo housing for the O2 sensor. If you want to run closed-loop you need a sensor. Without a catalytic converter or emissions system it is optional. The engine will have same power with or without it; however with it the system can adapt to differing fuel blends etc, and possibly get better milage.

Ok now for some pictures!

Today I wanted to see just how bad the compressor was. This will tel me how contaminated the condenser is.
It is the worst compressor I have ever seen.

If this is any omen - the shaft looks like this after I hammered it to get the seized compressor apart. It should take onl a light tap.


Whoa! One broken off piston. Visible side-clearance around the others.


Totally blown seals. Totally dry without any trace of oil.



Nothing I can add that this picture doesn't say:



Just slightly contaminated:


This is the liquid line, between the condenser and the orifice tube. That is pieces of shredded Teflon compressor piston seals. They have gone all the way through the condender to the orifice tube. Will be getting another condenser coil at the JY. There is no point in trying to clean out the one on the car.


Orifice tube. Totally packed. By te way, there was NO TRACE of oil on it. That oil you see is Liquid Wrench that I used to get the tube out of the evaporator fitting. It looks like this system probably had leaks, and they kept charging in refrigerant but never replaced the oil that was leaking out at the same time. Then eventually this was the result.


Now for the engine!

First order of business was cleaning it up.




Then, I could safely take off the oilpan without risking more contamination. The pan was not too dirty, but look at the nasty black rusty water that flowed out of the cooling system.


The lower part of the cylinder bores don't look bad. Just a little oil residue. No scoring. All piston skirts still in place.


I took off the #6 rod cap and inspected the bearing. It was in OK shape. There's no ongoing failure, however the bearing is corroded. I am sure this is from sitting so long without running, and with old oil in the engine. They should be changed.


The crankshaft journal is perfect.


That's it for the time being. Going to be overseas for a while. Then this I can get back in this project!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Been 2 months overseas, but now that I'm back home, there's a little progress to show!

I had just got the engine washed and taken the oilpan off before I had to leave. Today I got more of the parts removed, and got the timing set and water pump replaced.

Manifold top removed. Note the 2 items circled in blue? The one on the LEFT is the cold-start injector. The one on the right is the thermo-time switch. These were used by the original MAF system for startup enrichment. The thermo-time switch has a heating element and a thermostat. It is also inserted into the coolant passage. The system is wired to the starter circuit. When the starter is cranking the injector sprays extra fuel. The thermo-time switch will cut off the extra fuel after a few seconds. It heats its self internally to act as a timer. The hotter the coolant is, the shorter the time. When the engine is already hot, it won't spray any extra fuel. This was a throw-back to the old Bosch analog D-Jetronic systems. If I remember right, Bosch had a patent on a fuel injection system which used the main injectors to do cold-start enrichment. After Bosch patent expired, then GM stopped using this system and let the main injectors do the cold-start work. The new ECM for this car has cold-start fuel delivery through the main injectors. So all this is GONE. More room for useful parts like turbo water lines. One trick the guys do on the old cars is to tie the cold-start injector to a pressure switch. This lets the injector spray fuel whenever it's on boost. Every little bit of fuel helps, but it is a VERY small injector. I tried it on my T-Type, and couldn't really tell much difference. The 28 Lb injectors in this one will do more than the engine will ever need.


The original Rochester MPFI fuel rail.


The engine had a dead cylinder due to a bad injector. Looks like some time in the past one got replaced with a mismatched one. These are going away and a set 28 Lb/Hr ones from an L67 going in.



All the extra parts off.


It's not sludged-up at all!






Uh Oh! Here's a problem. The harmonic balancer is failing. That rubber is crumbling out!



Timing cover off. WOW at the worn timing chain.




I think I found a reason for the wear. This is damage from a less-than-qualaified person changing the timing gear. They drove a CHISEL between the gear and the crankshaft. This raised a HUGE bur on the seating shoulder. This prevents the gear from seating all the way. Therefore the chain is not in alignment.


After filing down the burs, the new gear has no gap behind it.


New chain is tight!


Bolts torqued, with Loctite and damper in place.


Timing housing all cleaned up, and turbocharger water return fitting installed.


Timing gear housing in place...


New ACDelco pump installed.


Turbo oil return hole drilled and tapped 3/8" NPT.


Fitting glued in with green high-temp Loctite.


Oil supply and return installed. The starting motor and oil filter etc. are there to make sure nothing is blocked or interfering.


From the inside:


Hope to make a little more progress tomorrow.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

I like the fact that the original Rochester Fuel Rail is made here in the US of A!! The old timing chain definitely seen its last day...nice to see the new one in place, and the shiny new water pump!

David, do you know by chance the condition of the pistons? They should be in good shape im sure, but figured to ask while the engine is out of the car.

Loving the progress thusfar!

Thanks! I'm happy to be making progress! Just about to the detail part where it can get tedious. Looking at the bottom of the piston skirts and the bottom of the cylinder bores, it looks like the pistons are fine.

Speaking of progress, here is some more for today.

Got the rod bearings changed. The old one out:


New insert in place.


All in and torqued!


Now to get rid of that cold-start injector hole in the m anifold. I had an old brake wheel cylinder piston which was turned down to fit in the hole.


Then driven in with Loctite.


Now the manifold gaskets in place, with the Right Stuff sealant on the ends.


All installed and torqued...


Now, the plenum needs a fitting for the MAP sensor line. This is the most critical sensor for the speed-density fuel system so it gets its own line.


Now on to the fuel rail. Away with the cruddy small injectors!


With the 28 Lb/Hr inectors (from L67) installed.


Comparison of original one and a new one. No wonder the engine had a miss.


Fits just like it was made to go there!


More external parts on:


From the other side:


I need to get the engine and trans back together and on the cart. This will allow me to finish the turbo exhaust and coolat / lube oil lines. I couldn't reach that point today because the new oil pump didn't come with a pickup, and the old one is different. So it's still on the stand. Hope to get that stuff tomorrow.

I plan to push the car out of barn and viciously attack the engine bay with pressure washer. It is very grimey. Also need to exchange the steering gear and clean out the A/C evap box.

I've got until the weekend to work on it. After that I have to go to Louisiana and help with a training class at work. Probably a week worth of stuff to do there!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Alrighty! Here goes with some more progress today!



First thing, I got the engine off the stand and put the new rear seal and driveplate on. That gives me the ability to connect the engine and transmission together. Therefore I can start making brackets and tubelines for the turbo.


The rear manifold is special from the McLaren TGP system. It was from an aluminum head engine, and the bolt spacing is a little different. I had to slot the holes because the iron head engine has the bolt holes closer together. got the slotting done, and some foil tape gaskets in place.

Because the bolts are now very close to the manifold body, spacers are required. The original manifold for the iron head engine had similar design. I turned down some 1/4" pipe nipple pieces. This keeps the bolt heads from hitting the manifold, as well as allows a longer, more stretchy bolt to be used. This is a good design to keep it from working loose from the heat. In fact many of the diesel engines have spacers for this reason.


Installed and tightened. Looks pretty good!


Now on to the turbo mounting bracket. The McLaren TGP has an engine mount bracket on the end of the transmission. It had a place to fasten the crossover pipe. This car does not have this, so I have to make a bracket for the crossover. Problem is, I have one of those transmission cases without the tapped holes in it.


Nothing a little drilling and tapping can't fix!







And the bracket!


Crossover and turbo housing:


Now for some lube oil and coolant lines. I got the oil supply and coolant return finished. The oil return will have a section of high temp hose, which I don't have. The coolant supply tube connection will need a fitting. Those I hope to get tomorrow.






I've still got to make some support brackets and install tubing clamps to suport the lines. They may vibrate and break otherwise. Also expecting the harmonic balancer and oil pump screen tomorrow. If things go well, I may get the exhaust wrapped and all turbo parts installed for the last time tomorrow.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Alright! Just a few pictures today but they represent a lot of work!

The harmonic balancer came in, so I got that installed.


Next part was the turbo actuator bracket. Also mounted the boost control solenoid on this bracket. That's the electrical part with all the hoses going to it. Keep it all together and concise! Put on a new 8 PSI actuator and got the linkage rod connected.


After that, I took it all back apart and installed the exhaust system insulation. This will help the rest of the underhood parts survive without baking too much. Also the turbo oil and coolant lines are all connected now, and have their support brackets.


The parts pile is getting smaller and the engine is getting larger!




Just got to get the oil pump screen. Hopefully it arrives tomorrow! Then the oilpan gasket can go in and the engine will be "complete" once again.

The original dipstick tube wouldn't fit with the turbo downpipe. I installed an H-car one, but I am afraid it may interfere with the A/C dryer canister. Will have to see what happens during engine install. Also, the dispstick for this tube got mangled so I have to get another one at the junkyard.


I would like to have the compressor on the engine before it goes back in the car, but I am waiting on the compressor repair kit. Hopefully that will arrive soon so I can get all parts on the engine before it goes in! It's so much easier to make things fit and work before the engine is in car.

If tomorrow no parts; I will probably try to get the car pushed out of the barn for engine bay washing.

[robertisaar]

something to keep in mind: the expansion/flex joints on the manifold crossovers are notorious for failing and at this point in time is more of a "how badly do they leak already" rather than "when will they start".

otherwise, wow.