Tuning a Haltech E6A

[bashmanx]

Hey guys, have any of you had experience tuning a Haltech E6A engine managment system with a 2000 3100 motor? I talked to a shop here in WI and he told me that the last cavi they tuned cost over $2000! They said it cost so much because before they could tune it, they had to do the homework to learn how to tune it first. They said that the "homework" was a lot of that $2000. I figure, if I do some of that "homework" now, it could save me money in the long run. Thanks, Brett

[RedZMonte]

sounds like you need to find a new tuner.... I would also look for someone with a base tune to start with on a 3x00 motor and go from there. Also you can tune the stock ecu which is good from quite a bit of power. any reason you are running a standalone vs the stock ecu and HP Tuners? the stock ECU has all the BS already in there, smooth idle and drivability.. Just a thought.

S

[bashmanx]

I'm going to start a search for new tuner. I am really new at this, so I have a huge learning curve to work throuh. What do you mean by a base tune. I spoke with the haltech guy about getting a new computer (easier to use/tune) which will wire right up to the current wire harness. I bought the car with the computer wired in, so that is why I'm working with a standalone. I think the current tune will work, but I have a stronger motor with stronger internals so I would like to pull as much power out of the motor as safely as possible.

[pocket-rocket]

A base tune is the basically just a very basic starting point just to get the engine to actually start and idle on its own, that way you can start tuning and get it all dialed in.

[timg]

I can see $2k for installing, wiring, and tuning a standalone. But for tuning alone, that's crazy.

So do you already have a Haltech? If so, are you getting a new one, or just retuning the one you have?

Tim

[NateD4]

I would think tuning cost depends on the shop and how much fine tuning they do. If the shop dyno rate is $50/hour you are buying 40 hours of their time.

I'd ask for an itemized estimate.

What strikes me as odd is that the shop already knows how to tune one (from previous customers) so it should save them time and you money.

[pocket-rocket]

Yeah, but charging your customers for learning how to tune? That's like a mechanic charging a fee for part of his rent and tools.

I would find a new tuner for sure.

[NateD4]

In the engineering world that is called NRE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-recurring_engineering)

It doesn't seem unreasonable to charge a customer for all your time. Maybe not the best way to develop a new business or customer base... But certainly no different than a mechanic charging you time and materials for a job.

[pocket-rocket]

Time and materials for repair work is one thing, but that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. They may as well add in ASE cert. materials/time/course costs, ect in as well.

When I repair something for someone that I haven't done before, I don't charge them for the time I spent on the computer researching common problems to be had, just wrench turning time. I don't see the need to do anything more.

Besides, now from this point they should have the knowledge from that day forward to work with that same sort of ECM, unless the guy that learned it quit. I doubt they payed him $50, 45, 40, or even 35/hr either. It just seems shady to me.

[SappySE107]

I have an E6K file for a 3.4 DOHC so I could possibly make a base tune to make the car fire up. my copy of e6a doesnt work in xp

[NateD4]

NRE is very very common in the 'new to us' and 'we've never done this before' business world. MOST non owners want to be paid for every minute they are working a project because they are only doing it for the money and there is no incentive for them directly to develop new technology, business or customers. The owner of that business may have a different take...

However, people are free to do business as they wish.

If they want to charge to figure it out again or in case something comes up and they want to have it covered they are free to do so.

It really isn't that uncommon to bill customers in that way. That is how a lot of bigger companies do things (which is why they cost a lot).

But in reality it is the only accurate and fair way to do things.

As a mechanic you might fix price a job or cut the customer a break. Again up to you how you price.

My advice still is get an itemized quote and if they decide to go with this person get an itemized 15 minute by 15 minute bill on where the time went (they will no doubt charge you for the itemization service).

Otherwise, I am inclined to agree with other posters... find another shop. At very least they should provide you with some outline of the services they are providing so you can compare them to another shop.

Thats my opinion.

[SappySE107]

Let me know when any of your opinions makes his car run. That goes for everyone that thinks this is a discussion about shop rates.

[NateD4]

Part of the original discussion was the outrageous shop rate.


At one time I had an E6GM. Haltech had a base map on the software disc that 'should' start any engine. However, I don't think that'll help him set the crank trigger and cam trigger parameters up.

Though when I was working on getting it setup my plan was to set the timing to 0 degrees in the computer on the cranking map and then adjust the crank trigger phase angle or phase delay until I got 0 degrees on a timing light.

The only real question is which trigger mode to use. Rising or falling edge etc...

If I was doing it today I'd hook a scope to it. But I'm guessing he doesn't have one.

The question is whether the 3.4 DOHC uses the same wave form output for crank triggers as the 3.1L and 3100s.

I'm sure you know what crank is in the DOHC and whether the timing disc is the same as the 2.8/3.1 engines.

I would think your DOHC file might work for him with some minor tweaks.

Does he have a wide band? That might help narrow down the injector timing to a run-able level.

[robertisaar]

falling edge, or at least that's how the factory PCMs work.

yes, the LQ1 and 3.1/3100 have the same crank(IIRC), 2.8 is a shorter stroke, but same reluctor pattern.

[ForcedFirebird]

Part of the original discussion was the outrageous shop rate.


At one time I had an E6GM. Haltech had a base map on the software disc that 'should' start any engine. However, I don't think that'll help him set the crank trigger and cam trigger parameters up.

Though when I was working on getting it setup my plan was to set the timing to 0 degrees in the computer on the cranking map and then adjust the crank trigger phase angle or phase delay until I got 0 degrees on a timing light.

The only real question is which trigger mode to use. Rising or falling edge etc...

If I was doing it today I'd hook a scope to it. But I'm guessing he doesn't have one.

The question is whether the 3.4 DOHC uses the same wave form output for crank triggers as the 3.1L and 3100s.

I'm sure you know what crank is in the DOHC and whether the timing disc is the same as the 2.8/3.1 engines.

I would think your DOHC file might work for him with some minor tweaks.

Does he have a wide band? That might help narrow down the injector timing to a run-able level.

The cranks are identical in the 3.4DOHC and the 3.4 pushrod. The DOHC file will run the engine just fine for abase tune, we have been doing this for some time now. Ben just didn't want this thread to get cluttered with old stories and how "business should be conducted" after the point was mute, and you commented yet again about it in this post. No need for last words.