My Official turbo built for my 2000 Monte Carlo

[narutov2]

HUORRAY! me and my friends got the car running, we ran down to the gas station with no exhaust but a downpipe to get premium gas after a bottle of octane boost since it had reg gas in it, lol. the stalling was probably a mass amount of problems causing it to stall the way it did. We changed the tps and adjusted the throttle bracket screw somewhat. and tighten all the vac lines with hoses, and put a checkvalve in the fpr(since it ran better with it?????) But it stalls when the turbo spools, I think and the pedal is dam dam touchy. I think I need a check valve on the map sensor too as told by schmieder, probably cause my pcm won't read it.... Well after work tomorrow night hopefully we can start the exhaust for real, cause we think it will run better with a exhaust as of now

THough a problem is that the brake booster ain't working? or I should say it feels as though the brake pedal won't move too. That means I should get a check valve for it since I thought it had one already? The line to the brake boost was about 1/2" I think. so guess I will have to look around?

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

HUORRAY! me and my friends got the car running,...

Congrats!!!! I figured it was a combination of things.

One thing I want to caution about is the fuel regulator. It needs to know boost. A check valve in this line is not the way the FPR is designed to work. I can't explain why the engine seemed to run better this way - but there is some other reason causing it to overfuel and this reduction in fuel pressure helped to mask the other problem.

If you want to run a check valve for the MAP, it needs to have an air bleed or vacuum will be trapped in the MAP sensor and cause it to show false low pressure readings at all times.

I see you have a tune in the ECM. Does it require any different sensors (2-BAR map; larger MAF etc.)? I don't recal seeing them on the list on your first post.

It sounds like the engine is making very little vacuum (with the brake pedal hard etc.) Do you have a normal camshaft, or a very aggressive race cam?

It's hard to troubleshoot something like this over messages! Since it does run now, you will eventually figure out the problem. Good luck with it!

David

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Got a question about the MAF placement. Where in the system is the MAF, relative to the turbo? I couldn't see it in your pictures.

I have only tuned one MAF-based turbo car, but I found it was very sensative to the location of the MAF. Originally I had the MAF on the turbo inlet (draw-through). This caused problems. The turbo would emit air vibrations, sound waves, whatever you want to call it, OUT the compressor inlet - and cause the MAF to read very high at odd times. It would do it every time the engine was revved and then you let off the gas. I moved the MAF downstream of the intercooler (between the cooler and throttle body) and the problem went away.

If there is ANY air leaking from the boost pipes between the MAF and the throttle body, it will cause all sorts of problems. If there is a vacuum leak between the MAF and TB, it will cause a lean condition. If there is a boost leak, it will cause a rich condition. If the BOV is between the MAF and TB it will cause a rich condition when the BOV is open.

[RedZMonte]

you dont need a 2 bar on a MAF car unless you are runing strictly SD tune or you max out the maf.... Then you can also run a larger maf. the maf on my car is about in the stock location about 6" before the throttle body. the maf will allow you to adjust fueling after MAP is maxed out. the maf should be blow threw after the BOV but before the TB or you will have issues (load up on fuel) when you let off. if you run a Suck threw maf setup you will need to run the BOV into the intake and recurculate it or it may cause it to stall.
here is how mine sits. runs/works very well, my BOV is in the fender well before my maf you cant really see it.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

...here is how mine sits. runs/works very well,..

That is a very good looking setup! Also, I like your avatar picture. Some of the marine engines I work on have that style of big turbocharger.

David

[narutov2]

I was thinking about running a larger maf, but I only have a stock one to use now, and it is about 2 feet away from the throttle body, after the outlet of the intercooler. so it should be hooked up right. I am currently only running Stock cam as many turbo members says a stock cam will do great for a daily driver which is my initial goal, maybe still is lol.
I didn't get to work on the car today because had a long day of work. Will make sure there isn't leaks between the maf and tb though for sure. I guess I will find out more after the exhaust is done and when zzp gets me a working turbo pcm, because I still don't have a tuner or know anyone that has one around here that could help. But for now Exhaust seems to be a priority because it is hard to work on a car in a garage filled with smoke... I will be sure to try and get more pics. as it is hard to take pics when u are working and working on the car..

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

I was thinking about running a larger maf, but I only have a stock one to use now, and it is about 2 feet away from the throttle body, after the outlet of the intercooler. so it should be hooked up right.

Sounds like it should work!

...when zzp gets me a working turbo pcm, because I still don't have a tuner

Do you have an OBDII program to view the PCM data? You may indeed have a corrupt PCM.

...it is hard to work on a car in a garage filled with smoke...

Hmmmm.... Is this smoke a "rich fuel" smoke? If it is rich fuel smoke, this REALLY points to a PCM problem. If it's not calibrated for your injectors; or if the program somehow got corrupted, it could do this. With the older ECM's (and possibly newer, too maybe someone can clarify) IF the program gets corrupted, the ECM will fall back to a hard-wired backup fuel mode that is hard-wired for the original injectors. If you have big injectors, the engine will run pig-rich and flood/ foul/ smoke when this happens.

Take care!
David

[RedZMonte]

you will only need a bigger MAF if you are making yours out. I do not have a check valve added to any of mine. the MAP will max out and not cause a problem, the MAF will pickup and control the fueling when in boost. as long as your BOV is not between the TB adn the MAF your placement should be fine. hard to say what the ecu is doing without a scanning tool, look for the DHP powrtuner int eh for sale sections on the GM boards they are cheap and work great for the V6's... best of all no credits, its all unlocked.

S

[Schmieder]

I was thinking about running a larger maf, but I only have a stock one to use now, and it is about 2 feet away from the throttle body, after the outlet of the intercooler. so it should be hooked up right. I am currently only running Stock cam as many turbo members says a stock cam will do great for a daily driver which is my initial goal, maybe still is lol.
I didn't get to work on the car today because had a long day of work. Will make sure there isn't leaks between the maf and tb though for sure. I guess I will find out more after the exhaust is done and when zzp gets me a working turbo pcm, because I still don't have a tuner or know anyone that has one around here that could help. But for now Exhaust seems to be a priority because it is hard to work on a car in a garage filled with smoke... I will be sure to try and get more pics. as it is hard to take pics when u are working and working on the car..

Your MAF will be good for up to 10-12 psi (I think, not sure) but I hit 10 psi at times and hadn't out flowed the MAF.

Stock Cams are good for turbo. But a Cam swap down the road isn't a bad idea either. You can get more flow from higher valve lift and tweek the cam profile just right. I would go straight to Ben for camshafts. But I agree, stock cams work surprisingly great for turbo.

Keep it simple, diagnosing. Check for Spark, Fuel and Compression.

Spark is an easy test...Get a spare and hook a plug cable to it, ground the plug to the block while a helper turns the key.
Check fuel pressure at schrader valve
Hang the fuel rail w/ injectors up some and have a helper turn the key. But be sure to prevent spark, unplug the ICM.
Triple check spark plug cable arrangement. Miswiring does happen.

ahhh, what have you tested so far?

[narutov2]

Lets just say didn't get to work on it the whole week since Sunday, Could only start tonight. But by tests? I don't know But we had been starting and closing and starting and closing till we got the idle about right.... and It runs but I did hear it pop a couple times, and stalled a lot. But the brakes don't seem to work since the pedal is whole way down and the car isn't braked yet and there is pressure on the pedal so not broken lines.

But major question, does the bov need the recirculation connected to the intercooler piping? Cause it is wide open now, but some people said their car needed it recirculation so it doesn't backfire or stall...???

Secondly bov could be connected to the intake manifold directly right? Cause some people told me to connect it between the tb and maf? meaning connect to the tb vac lines I have? Cause I got it connected to the uim by itself for bov.

So tonight I hope to get something done if not this will stay as a weekend thing.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Lets just say didn't get to work on it the whole week since Sunday, Could only start tonight. But by tests? I don't know But we had been starting and closing and starting and closing till we got the idle about right.... and It runs but I did hear it pop a couple times, and stalled a lot. But the brakes don't seem to work since the pedal is whole way down and the car isn't braked yet and there is pressure on the pedal so not broken lines.

But major question, does the bov need the recirculation connected to the intercooler piping? Cause it is wide open now, but some people said their car needed it recirculation so it doesn't backfire or stall...???

Secondly bov could be connected to the intake manifold directly right? Cause some people told me to connect it between the tb and maf? meaning connect to the tb vac lines I have? Cause I got it connected to the uim by itself for bov.

So tonight I hope to get something done if not this will stay as a weekend thing.

BOV needs to connect to charge pipe, AFTER turbo, but BEFORE MAF.
The BOV needs to releive the turbo compressor when the throttle CLOSES. Therefore it needs to be before the throttle.
The MAF needs to ONLY measure air that GOES INTO THE ENGINE. Therefore it can't have a BOV after the MAF. That would allow measured air to exhaust to the atmosphere after the MAF.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Basic turbo system with blow-thorugh MAF and BOV:

[Schmieder]

The BOV can be before or after the MAF, depending on the set-up. When the throttle closes, the excess boosted air will bounce off the throttle plate and force the turbo to spin backwards. The BOV prevents this by releasing the airmass only when a vacuum in plenum and positive pressure in the intake are present.

If the BOV is after the MAF, the airmass that is released after boosting up is already measured by the PCM. The PCM will command enough fuel to make the desired AFR (air fuel ratio). BUT the measured air isn't there anymore, it was released. So the much less dense intake airmass is over fueled and that results in a stall. Two ways to prevent this......pipe the released airmass back into the intake somewhere after the MAF or place the BOV before the MAF.

Placing the BOV before the MAF is a simple solution.

The vacuum lines to the BOV should be routed to the Plenum. You also need to adjust the top screw if you have one. It will increase/decrease a springed force against the valve. If the spring is loose, air could be drawn into the intake lines. If the BOV is placed after the MAF, you would be adding unmetered air to the intake. This will make the AFR lean, especially during cold start up while in open loop.

[narutov2]

HI quick update I guess. I haven't been able to work on car for about a week and half because My main ride to work broked down. My dodge Caravan's transmission exploded on the differential part and made the whole trans useless, so went to rip a working one out from a parts car and swapped it, which sucked.... financially.

Well in past 2 days the custom 3" exhaust is done, and it is nice, and should be where I want the sound to be during the testing we did today. (basically from front to back, glowshift o2 sensor for wideband, then got flex pipe, then magnaflow cat, then o2 sensor, then magnaflow muffler for a resonation, then ypipe to 2 Ford Mustang GT 2011 mufflers..... Yea I know I got like 20 make/models on my car now...)

SO We tried routing the wastegate to the throttle body vacuum port since we saw how david's diagram has the line going in between the maf and throttle body, which confused me, I thought we weren't suppose to allow change between those two things. WHere exactly is the best position to put that wastegate hose???????

Then I think I found out why the car keeps stalling. I believe that one of the fuel injectors are not installed properly and is just sitting there. But will check to find out. We will be working on that when we got time. But I am not sure if that is the main problem.... I wish someone can tell me what is wrong.

QUESTION, on the boost gauge does it only read vac untill boost comes in before it reads boost? Cause it seems to not be gettng boost, also I do no know why the brakes still not working well or not working at all. Is there something I am connecting wrong? and I thought those got check valves as a failsafe.....

Here is the stuff I drew today just to show you what I done, and if you look at the bov pic I hope I didn't miss anything...

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

HI quick update I guess. I haven't been able to work on car for about a week and half because My main ride to work broked down. My dodge Caravan's transmission exploded on the differential part and made the whole trans useless, so went to rip a working one out from a parts car and swapped it, which sucked.... financially.

Well in past 2 days the custom 3" exhaust is done, and it is nice, and should be where I want the sound to be during the testing we did today. (basically from front to back, glowshift o2 sensor for wideband, then got flex pipe, then magnaflow cat, then o2 sensor, then magnaflow muffler for a resonation, then ypipe to 2 Ford Mustang GT 2011 mufflers..... Yea I know I got like 20 make/models on my car now...)

SO We tried routing the wastegate to the throttle body vacuum port since we saw how david's diagram has the line going in between the maf and throttle body, which confused me, I thought we weren't suppose to allow change between those two things. WHere exactly is the best position to put that wastegate hose???????

Then I think I found out why the car keeps stalling. I believe that one of the fuel injectors are not installed properly and is just sitting there. But will check to find out. We will be working on that when we got time. But I am not sure if that is the main problem.... I wish someone can tell me what is wrong.

QUESTION, on the boost gauge does it only read vac untill boost comes in before it reads boost? Cause it seems to not be gettng boost, also I do no know why the brakes still not working well or not working at all. Is there something I am connecting wrong? and I thought those got check valves as a failsafe.....

Here is the stuff I drew today just to show you what I done, and if you look at the bov pic I hope I didn't miss anything...[ATTACH=CONFIG]5999[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6000[/ATTACH]

Just a quick reply b/c I'm at work this week!

Your diagram looks like it should work perfectly. The small line connected between MAF and TB doesn't let significant airflow escape, it just senses pressure for the W/G so yes that's OK.

The boost gauge senses pressure in the manifold plenum - so yes it will read vacuum when at light throttle loads, then move to boost when engine is throttled up and turbo spools up.

Later,
David