t3/t4 Garrett advice

[CNCguy]

IIRC the 3 Bar sensor uses a different connector that the 1 Bar sensor. It's an easy fix though.

[Joseph Upson]

Read or else

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUkXriHjQeI&feature=related

[tkoforpresident]

I just got pwned.

[bszopi]

I just got pwned.

HAHAHA!! Well, I think it was worth it, as you just got some very good information and direction from someone who has been in your shoes. I, honestly, am right there with you. What I know about turbos is what I have learned reading this forum for the last 10 yrs. And yet, I'm planning a twin turbo monster for the Mustang. My only advantage is I know its still a long way out, so I have plenty of time to study up. And one of these days, I'm going to do just that.

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[Joseph Upson]

I just got pwned.

Not trying to give you a hard time, but you asked what type of MAP sensor you have on your car and that question alone says a lot about where you are regarding preparedness to accomplish your goal. Having made many mistakes myself, I've observed many threads similar in nature to this where those of us with the experience jump right in and answer questions when we really should be saying stop, you're not ready yet.

My Fiero has been in my moms driveway since Fall of 2007 because:
I tried to do too much at once.
I didn't listen to good advice, single turbo instead of twin.
I planned as I went along.
I went back and followed good advice after the fact.
Corrected the things I could have done better the first time if I had planned.
Spent extra because I didn't read and search to find I could buy a nice bypass fuel pressure regulator for the same price I spent on that 8100 V8 rail I hacked the regulator from.
Most importantly though I'm too far away from the car to work on it continuously. None the less, I spent hundreds I didn't need to because I let ambition get the better of me. In the end it cost more of everything, time and money,
and I'm still not done yet, but close.

[Joseph Upson]

Another example regarding knowledge as it relates to cars is this video. I sent it too my cousin a moment ago. His response was "good thing it wasn't spinning the other way", but those of us with a decent understanding of the laws of physics know that the direction of rotation has no effect on the direction the pieces go in this circumstance. Some things you have to know from the start. A member on the Fiero forum was planning to use his flywheel bolts sleeved for a tight fit in the flywheel to help center it as he needed to move it closer to the F40 6spd transmission to make the clutch work. I explained that the flywheel needs the crankshaft centric to center it as well as absorb any imbalance since the bolts were not designed for that and could shear off if subjected to enough stress. This video posted by another member helped convince him to remove the spacer and find another way.

http://mycomputerninja.com/?p=478#

[tkoforpresident]

that site is awesome!

It even has a "how to" on installing a wide band using a 7730 ECM (I have 7727 but isn't it the same thing?).

Plus, besides the wb02 and 3 bar map sensor (which it gives a part # for), I've already got most of the equipment as far as tuning is concerned.

I need some more time to explore that site...

[Joseph Upson]

that site is awesome!
It even has a "how to" on installing a wide band using a 7730 ECM (I have 7727 but isn't it the same thing?).

Plus, besides the wb02 and 3 bar map sensor (which it gives a part # for), I've already got most of the equipment as far as tuning is concerned.

I need some more time to explore that site...

The 727 ecm is wired differently so you'll want to avoid it with code59. Another good thing about code59 as it relates to 8F TGP code is that a communication problem was corrected making it possible to emulate and datalog at the same time, a feature that is very helpful when tuning. You can do that with $A1 also but not with 8F.

[tkoforpresident]

I found this:

Spares For 1227727's:
C28 (TPS2), A14 (MAT2), C21 (MAP2), A5 (MAT3)

It is possible to wire a wbo2 into a 7727 is it not?

[Joseph Upson]

I found this:
Spares For 1227727's:
C28 (TPS2), A14 (MAT2), C21 (MAP2), A5 (MAT3)

It is possible to wire a wbo2 into a 7727 is it not?

I'm sure it is, I just stated the wiring is different than that of the 730. To my knowledge you can only replace the 727 with the 727 if you have an ecm problem, with the 730 you have at least two options, 730 and 749. It's my opinion that the more support you have the better. If no one on the site is using 59 with a 727 ecm, why put yourself in a potential jam by having to translate between two configurations in the event you have a problem and someone else not using the 727 is trying to help you. That's just my view, do whatever suits your purpose as this is your project.

[tkoforpresident]

I'll get things figured out and then go from there.

[Schmieder]

I hope I don't sound like I'm disrespecting those who know infinitely more than I do about boost than I do but since I don't know the answers, I have to ask silly questions. I picked up Maximum Boost but I just started reading it. Even then, that doesn't make me an expert on turbos or even help me much for my own particular setup, especially since you mention that technology has greatly changed since that book was written.

I also have a book titled Engine Management Advanced Tuning that Bob (60dgrzbelow) sent me. It has a section on tuning for turbo applications so I will have to look into that as well.


But for now, what is involved with swapping to a 2 or 3 bar map sensor? Is it as simple as cutting/splicing the new sensor into the harness and running the same vacuum line to it? Or is it more elaborate?

Also, who knows for sure what kind of map the $59 mask runs? It sounds highly reccomended.

I should probably be talking to Ben about this too, since he will most likely have a heavy hand in the tuning side of things.

Actually, reading Maximum Boost front to back will make you far more knowledgable in boosted applications. It's the type of knowledge that sticks well. Certain concepts are like Ahhhh and hard to forget. I knew next to nothing about turbocharging a car 2 years ago. I read Maximum Boost and read a lot on this site. I built my turbo and it runs quite well imho.

I think you are looking for some particular answers that just don't exist. I found turbocharging my car had many necessary creative moments. As in each vehicle is unique and each turbo build is even more unique. I approached it with a serious dedication. I spent months reading, I-Net window shopping, looking at my engine for long periods visualizing my setup options, ect. Some things are written in stone, like a 3x00 can handle non-intercooled boost up to 4-5 psi max safely. Stock internals can handle roughly a max of 8-12 psi max (some boost to 15 but I wouldn't on stock internals)

So your setup is going to be a reflection of how much you want to spend. Dropping in $5,000 is not uncommon for a professional turbo build. If you look around you could cut that down. Or if you want low boost for cheaper, ect.

I would never spend money on a turbo and not buy a wideband.

It is a huge task but can be fun and very rewarding. Here is a brief list of parts I would look into for turbo........Forged Pistons, strong timing chain, MLS head gasket, Intercooler, Fuel Injectors, Aluminum Intake Piping, New Head Bolts or ARP Studs, cooler spark plugs, oil cooler, atf cooler, blow of valve, waste gates, mandrel exhaust, exhaust heat wrap, turbo jacket, fuel pump, EGR block, venting engine bay, new radiator (cause u going to throw lots of heat).....and then there is fueling. Some decide to boost fuel rail pressure and others decide to tune the PCM for more fuel. I prefer the PCM method. But for OBDI, I don't know squat.

I hope you do it. It is a lot of fun (most times). I was really nervous drilling and tapping my oil pan on the block, lol.

[Jonpro03]

I was really nervous drilling and tapping my oil pan on the block, lol.

X2 on that. I used jbweld as thread tape to make sure it sealed up good. I was even more nervous cleaning it out afterwards. I didn't want a single shred of alluminum left in there!