Turbo suggestions for otherwise stock engines

[robertisaar]

ok, being a sunday, with nothing to do, i got bored.... very bored. so i started making a list.... what i came up with was basically throwing in stock specs for various 60V6 motors into the squirrelperformance turbo calc and then going through EVERY turbo to see which ones came even close to being suitable at different boost levels...

now, my definition of "suitable" was this:

efficiency had to stay above ~60% at all times where the boost threshold was met. i was actually amazed at how many passed this, but that's why there are other req's as well...

i wanted a NICE margin between the calculated airflow and the surge threshold at any time there was boost. this knocked out quite a few.

then, at higher boost levels, i removed all of the turbos that at any time went beyond the highest speed shown on the charts to get rid of the turbos too small to make enough boost without spinning at ridiculous RPMs.

and this is what i have so far... at the moment, it's just the MPFI 2.8 gen 1 motors as installed in a F-body(fiero and FWD apps are probably close enough to use the same charts actually.... and the iron-headed 3.1MPFI as well, methinks), but i'm planning on working up through the generations as i have time.

now, for the disclaimer:

THIS IS MEANT AS SUGGESTIONS ONLY!

meaning, each individual vehicle and application will likely need something a bit different, but this should give you a good idea of where to start. this is also assuming you have a more or less stock motor(SMALL cams or LIGHT porting won't change things too much), after that, all of this gets thrown out the window.

2.8 RWD Iron Head MPFI:

~5PSI ~175HP
GT2252
GT2560R
GT2854R
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3776
GT3782R
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-57 DBB
T04E-60
T04E-60 DBB
T04B S-3
T04B V-1
T3 60
T3 Super 60
TB0348 86-87 GN TURBO
TS04
TD04H-15G
TD04H-16T
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C SY/TY TURBO
TD06H-20G
BRL4219E
K04-2275
K16-2467
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K14-2464
K24-2470R
K26-2664G
RS2-2672
53150-143
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~10PSI ~223HP
GT2056
GT2252
GT2259
GT2554R
GT2560R
GT2854R
GT2860R-1
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3776
TO4E-40
TO4E-46
TO4E-50
TO4E-SUPER 50
TO4E-54
TO4E-57
TO4E-57 DBB
TO4E-60
TO4E-60 DBB
T04B S-3
T04B V-1
T3 50
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
TB0348
TD04H-13T
TD04H-15G
TD04H-16T
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
TE04H-13C11
HX30
HX35
BRL4219E
S200
S2B
K04-2075
K04-2275
K16-2467
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K14-2464
K24-2470R
K26-2664G
RS2-2672
S256
53130-143
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~15PSI ~271HP
GT2056
GT2252
GT2259
GT2554R
GT2560R
GT2854R
GT2860R-1
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571R
GT3776
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-56
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04E-57
T04B S-1
T3-60
T3-SUPER 60
TB0348
TD04H-13T
TD04H-15G
TD04H-16T
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX35
S200
S2B
K04-2275
K16-2467
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K24-2470R
K26-2664G
RS2-2672
S256
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~20PSI ~318HP
GT2560R
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3776
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
TB0348
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
HX35
S200
S2B
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K24-2470R
RS2-2672
S256
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

[robertisaar]

now, should anyone wish to challenge what i've come up with, feel free to do so.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=318&pr_ref=14.696&engine_disp=2.8&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=12&bfsc=0.43&max_ic_loss=1.5&rpm_redline=6000&rpm_peak_power=5000&rpm_max_boost=4000&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=74.2&vol_2=77.5&vol_3=73.5&vol_4=67.1&vol_1=74.2&vol_2=77.5&vol_3=73.5&vol_4=67.1&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1

that is what i based all of these off of for the ironheaded-2.8s. adjust the desired power level as necessary to change the peak boost.

[robertisaar]

3.4 iron head

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=375&pr_ref=14.696&engine_disp=3.4&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=12&bfsc=0.438&max_ic_loss=1.5&rpm_redline=6000&rpm_peak_power=5000&rpm_max_boost=4000&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=77.6&vol_2=77.8&vol_3=72.7&vol_4=65&vol_1=77.6&vol_2=77.8&vol_3=72.7&vol_4=65&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1

3.4 RWD Iron Head SFI:

~5PSI ~206HP
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3582R
GT3776
GT3782R
GT3788R
GT3794VA
GT4082
GT4088-1
GT4088-2
GT4094R
GT4094VA
GT4294
GT4594 (PORTED SHROUD)
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-57 DBB
T04E-60
T04E-60 DBB
T04B 60-1
T04B 62-1
T04B H-3
T04B S-3
T04B V-1
T04B V-2
T61
T64
T66
T04Z
TB0348
TS04
TD04H-19T
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX30E-7765AX
HX40-B8554M
HX35
H1E-8284AD
S200
S2B
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K26-2664G
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~10PSI ~262HP

GT2056
GT2252
GT2560R
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3582R
GT3776
GT3782R
GT3788R
GT3794VA
GT4082
GT4088-1
GT4088-2
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-57 DBB
T04E-60
T04E-60 DBB
T04B 60-1
T04B 62-1
T04B H-3
T04B S-3
T04B V-1
T04B V-2
T61
T66
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
T04Z
TB0348
TS04
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX30E-7765AX
HX40-B8554M
HX35
H1E-8284AD
S200
S2B
S300
K26-1
K26-2
K27
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~15PSI ~319HP
GT2560R
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3582R
GT3776
GT3782R
GT3788R
GT3794VA
GT4082
GT4088-1
GT4088-2
GT4294
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-57 DBB
T04E-60
T04E-60 DBB
T04B 60-1
T04B 62-1
T04B S-3
T04B V-1
T04B V-2
T61
T3 SUPER 60
T04Z
TB0348
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX30E-7765AX
HX40-B8554M
HX35
S200
S2B
S300
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K24-2470R
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~20PSI ~375HP
GT2860R-2
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3776
GT3782R
GT3788R
GT3794VA
GT4082
GT4088-2
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-60
T04B 62-1
T61
TD04H-19T
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-18G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX30E-7765AX
HX40-B8554M
HX35
S200
S2B
S300
K27
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-224

[Jonpro03]

Ya, you are pretty bored.

[robertisaar]

considering it takes me a solid 2 hours of nonstop key-punching, yeah.... pretty bored.

working on the LB6/LH0 now, then the LQ1, L82, LA1, LG8 and ending with the LX5. the newer VVT stuff is WAY too variable to make general statements with easily.

[Hard Driver]

You got to be kidding,is this suppose to be of some use? I can narrow it down to one of two compressors using maps done by hand.

[robertisaar]

i can also pick out the perfect compressor with a setup i'm familiar with, but it's interesting to see what works well with each motor at different pressure ratios.

[robertisaar]

OK, gen 2 2.8 and 3.1, i think it's enough for tonight(and the page).

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=306&pr_ref=14.696&engine_disp=2.8&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=12&bfsc=0.447&max_ic_loss=1.5&rpm_redline=6000&rpm_peak_power=5000&rpm_max_boost=4000&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=74.2&vol_2=77.5&vol_3=73.5&vol_4=67.1&vol_1=74.2&vol_2=77.5&vol_3=73.5&vol_4=67.1&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1&map_sel0=55&map_sel1=56&map_sel2=57&map_sel3=58&map_sel4=59&map_sel5=60&map_sel6=189&map_sel7=61

aluminum head 2.8

~5PSI ~168HP
GT2056
GT2252
GT2554R
GT2560R
GT2854R
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3582R
GT3776
GT3782R
GT3788R
GT3794VA
GT4082
GT4088-1
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-57 DBB
T04E-60
T04E-60 DBB
TO4B 60-1
TO4B 62-1
TO4B H-3
TO4B S-3
TO4B V-1
TO4B V-2
T61
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
T04Z
TB0348
TS04
TD04H-15G
TD04H-16T
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX30E-7765AX
HX35
H1E-8284AD
BRL4219E
K16-2467
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K14-2464
K24-2470R
K26-2664G
RS2-2672
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~10PSI ~214HP

GT2056
GT2252
GT2259
GT2554R
GT2560R
GT2854R
GT2860R-1
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3582R
GT3776
GT3782R
GT4082
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04E-54
T04E-57
T04E-57 DBB
T04E-60
T04E-60 DBB
T04B 62-1
T04B S-3
T61
T3 50
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
TB0348
TD04H-13T
TD04H-15G
TD04H-16T
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX35
BRL4219E
S200
S2B
K03-2075
K04-2075
K04-2275
K16-2467
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K14-2464
K24-2470R
K26-2664G
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~15PSI ~260HP
GT2056
GT2252
GT2554R
GT2560R
GT2854R
GT2860R-1
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3776
GT3782R
GT4082
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04E-57
T04B 60-1
T04B S-3
T61
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
TB0348
TD04H-13T
TD04H-15G
TD04H-16T
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
TD06H-20G
HX35
S200
S2B
K04-2275
K16-2467
K26-1
K26-2
K27
K24-2470R
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

~20PSI ~306HP

GT2560R
GT2860R-1
GT2860R-2
GT2860RS
GT2871R-1
GT2871R-2
GT2871R-3
GT2876R
GT3071R
GT3076R
GT3267-1
GT3267-2
GT3271
GT3571
GT3776
GT3782R
T04E-40
T04E-46
T04E-50
T04E-SUPER 50
T04B S-3
T61
T3 60
T3 SUPER 60
TB0348
TD04H-18T
TD04H-19T
TD05-14B
TD05-14G
TD05HR-16G L
TD05H-16G S
TD05H-18G
TD06-16G
TD06-17C
HX35
S200
S2B
K26-1
K26-2
K27
RS2-2672
S256
S258
66130-178
66130-200
66130-224

[95SleeperAcheiva]

How about just the HX35 and the HX40 on a '04 3.4 push-rod and the 3.4 dohc?

[Joseph Upson]

How about just the HX35 and the HX40 on a '04 3.4 push-rod and the 3.4 dohc?

I like the Holset VGT series turbos for the variability but from my observations some like the HX40 are two heavy for practical use on small motors intended to be quick daily drivers. One member on the Fiero forum has one hanging off the back of his 3800 powered Fiero and he said it weighs about 40 lbs vs my T67 that weighs about 15. I believe he's also had some cracks in his exhaust manifold that maybe associated with the weight.

As for using compressor maps for turbo selection, I had been aiming for close to the center of the max efficiency island which is ideal as far as reducing heat generated but not for stop and go driving. The closer you get to the center island on the compressor map generally speaking, the slower the turbo spools up because it's usually a big wheel relative to the motor and attempting to compensate with turbine size may cause you to choke off top end.

At 7 psi moving from a twin T3 .60/.48 setup to a single T67 .81 turbine turbo on the 3900 my inlet air temps dropped about 30 deg, which is good for about a 3% performance improvement (1% per 10 deg drop in air temps).

The trend I believe is being moved towards now is ignoring compressor maps and going with a turbo that is capable of the hp level you want and proper intercooling. For example, if your goal is 300 hp you don't want to install a 500 hp turbo. I agree with at least a 60% efficiency but I set aside the drive towards 70%+ because if the inlet temps are where they need to be with intercooling you're good to go, unless you're building a racer, otherwise you want the turbo to spool up as quick as possible, so I've lost my focus for a T70 that will do the same job but take a little more time in the process.

I like the way the science looks on paper though.

[Big_Jeff]

could anyone please tell me how to read the compressor maps... i would like to understand more of what i'm looking at for the 3.4 rwd turbo's
thanks, Jeff

[mickaz]

its not a turbo but how well would a V5F vortech S/C would be on a 3500? At 9 psi and at 15... I dont know how to read compressor map and it would help me alot.

[ForcedFirebird]

I like the Holset VGT series turbos for the variability but from my observations some like the HX40 are two heavy for practical use on small motors intended to be quick daily drivers. One member on the Fiero forum has one hanging off the back of his 3800 powered Fiero and he said it weighs about 40 lbs vs my T67 that weighs about 15. I believe he's also had some cracks in his exhaust manifold that maybe associated with the weight.

I don't feel this is true. We have been playing with a lot of Holset stuff, and I mean a lot. We have used the hx35 on engines as small as 2.4l dohc 4cyl and boost is coming full on mid-RPM's in 1st, hits like a ton of bricks, running 8psi. Same turbo on 2 2.5l i6 sohc makes 360whp @15psi. 3.5l i6 sohc Hx55 575whp/600wtq 25psi, boost comes in early still (much like the hx35 on 2.5l) on a home made sch10 weld el manifold, 2yrs no cracks or fatigue. This is just a few examples, but have really enjoyed these diesel turbos as of late. Cheap, plentiful, reliable and are generally running 1/2 the boost pressure they are intended since the slower/cooler diesel exhaust gasses need the volume, making the turbines "large" for a petrol engine - yet still have the flow of higher dollar turbos. While some of them are heavy, the non-VGT's aren't much heavier (if any) than their petrol counterparts.

Never really mapped the engines they went on, made a manifold, bolted them on, tuned them and watched the clients scream with excitement as they leave the shop.

[ForcedFirebird]

I like the Holset VGT series turbos for the variability but from my observations some like the HX40 are two heavy for practical use on small motors intended to be quick daily drivers. One member on the Fiero forum has one hanging off the back of his 3800 powered Fiero and he said it weighs about 40 lbs vs my T67 that weighs about 15. I believe he's also had some cracks in his exhaust manifold that maybe associated with the weight.

I don't feel this is true. We have been playing with a lot of Holset stuff, and I mean a lot. We have used the hx35 on engines as small as 2.4l dohc 4cyl and boost is coming full on mid-RPM's in 1st, hits like a ton of bricks, running 8psi. Same turbo on 2 2.5l i6 sohc makes 360whp @15psi. 3.5l i6 sohc Hx55 575whp/600wtq 25psi, boost comes in early still (much like the hx35 on 2.5l) on a home made sch10 weld el manifold, 2yrs no cracks or fatigue. This is just a few examples, but have really enjoyed these diesel turbos as of late. Cheap, plentiful, reliable and are generally running 1/2 the boost pressure they are intended since the slower/cooler diesel exhaust gasses need the volume, making the turbines "large" for a petrol engine - yet still have the flow of higher dollar turbos. While some of them are heavy, the non-VGT's aren't much heavier (if any) than their petrol counterparts.

Never really mapped the engines they went on, made a manifold, bolted them on, tuned them and watched the clients scream with excitement as they leave the shop.

[Joseph Upson]

I don't feel this is true. We have been playing with a lot of Holset stuff, and I mean a lot. We have used the hx35 on engines as small as 2.4l dohc 4cyl and boost is coming full on mid-RPM's in 1st, hits like a ton of bricks, running 8psi. Same turbo on 2 2.5l i6 sohc makes 360whp @15psi. 3.5l i6 sohc Hx55 575whp/600wtq 25psi, boost comes in early still (much like the hx35 on 2.5l) on a home made sch10 weld el manifold, 2yrs no cracks or fatigue. This is just a few examples, but have really enjoyed these diesel turbos as of late. Cheap, plentiful, reliable and are generally running 1/2 the boost pressure they are intended since the slower/cooler diesel exhaust gasses need the volume, making the turbines "large" for a petrol engine - yet still have the flow of higher dollar turbos. While some of them are heavy, the non-VGT's aren't much heavier (if any) than their petrol counterparts.

Never really mapped the engines they went on, made a manifold, bolted them on, tuned them and watched the clients scream with excitement as they leave the shop.

I have no complaints with the power potential of this series at all, but a 40 lb turbo of any brand is entirely too heavy for a job that something 15 lbs or less is available to do. I don't know what the average weight for them is but was told the one used on the Fiero running mid to high 11s quarters weighs 40 lbs.