Project MIDTRBO

[ALLTRBO]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Why do you think it's a fake? (Aside from the missing fittings)

[90BlueZ]

Look at the shape of it :


I guess yours don't say tial on the side either ?

[ALLTRBO]

I feel like a damn fool.... again.

I should have known that, I knew all about the knockoffs and fakes when I bought my Talon's wastegate back in '03 or '04, but damn if that wasn't almost 10 years ago and I forgot all about it. This is definitely not a Tial. When he bought it he either knew that and didn't tell me or he didn't know it but still ignored me when I pointed out the fact that Tials come with the fittings and I'd like to know why mine didn't have them.

Either way, he owes me the cost of a Tial so I can buy what I ASKED and PAID for. I'd even send his POS china crap back to him for the cost of shipping. That's on top of the $35 he already needs to give me for the wastegate spring that he LOST after he swapped it out. This just keeps getting better. I can wait to start actually digging into the car.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[TGP37]

Are you using a manual boost controller?

Sucks you got a knock-off instead of the Tial. Though, the knock off can work well for a while IF the engine is running properly. It seems the knock off products break easier when things go wrong or they are being used at the max rating.

Make sure the bladder like thing in the wastegate is not snagged. I had that happen once, the bladder was pinched at one end when the springs were swapped out. It kept the wastegate open and the turbo response was terrible.

But anyways, from what I gathered reading around, most knock offs fail when they are used for higher boost apps. I am using several knock off items in my turbo build and I haven't any problems yet with them. But I stayed below 12 psi.

[Joseph Upson]

Make sure you get a wastegate large enough to flow the full range of boost pressure you would like to run. I purchased mine without doing any research and wound up with two 35mm gates before reading that the higher boost pressure you intend to run the smaller the wastegate you should use. I finally figured out the knock sensor was the cause of all the timing retard I was getting under situations where there shouldn't have been any, and once I ran the engine into boost above 4000 rpm I realized in the datalog I narrowly missed hitting 12 psi although there is a 5psi spring in the wastegate. Below 4000 rpm it still hits 7-8 psi full throttle.

If you intend to run TGP 8F code I figured out how to get rid of the surging idle, adjust the injector bpw offset table. My engine purred immediately the same way it did in open loop when I increased the idle range value for my engine.

[ForcedFirebird]

Make sure you get a wastegate large enough to flow the full range of boost pressure you would like to run. I purchased mine without doing any research and wound up with two 35mm gates before reading that the higher boost pressure you intend to run the smaller the wastegate you should use. I finally figured out the knock sensor was the cause of all the timing retard I was getting under situations where there shouldn't have been any, and once I ran the engine into boost above 4000 rpm I realized in the datalog I narrowly missed hitting 12 psi although there is a 5psi spring in the wastegate. Below 4000 rpm it still hits 7-8 psi full throttle.

If you intend to run TGP 8F code I figured out how to get rid of the surging idle, adjust the injector bpw offset table. My engine purred immediately the same way it did in open loop when I increased the idle range value for my engine.

We ran in to the opposite mistake on the budget race car. The WG was too small, ran it up and down the street, it was at 15psi, cool. Went to the track and it ate the head gasket, coolant on the windshield, looked at the guage and saw 21psi, who knows how much it was at when the gasket gave up it's ghost.

It's currently running a Tial knock off, 15psi for major events. On long straights the car saw over 140mph (at 9psi) last weekend. The turbo literally melted the paint off the car within a foot of it at VIR, and the 16ga WG dump got so hot it melted and bent just from the force of the wind going under the car lol. That used Tial copy is still holding great. Everything is wrapped in heat wrap now, seems much better.

[Joseph Upson]

Actually that's what I was trying to state, anything above 15 psi is high boost for me so I should have purchased a 40 mm or greater wastegate. I have my wastegate mounted about10" from the manifold and that should help keep the exhaust temps down. I have two EGT sensors one just ahead of the turbine inlet and one about the same distance away as the wastegate from the turbine outlet and there's a 200 deg difference in temperature between the two.

[ForcedFirebird]

Actually that's what I was trying to state, anything above 15 psi is high boost for me so I should have purchased a 40 mm or greater wastegate. I have my wastegate mounted about10" from the manifold and that should help keep the exhaust temps down. I have two EGT sensors one just ahead of the turbine inlet and one about the same distance away as the wastegate from the turbine outlet and there's a 200 deg difference in temperature between the two.

Ah, misunderstood. Reverse thinking, but was agreeing with you in my mind lol.

[3400-95-Modified]

I was reading your thread and I'm a bit confused on what was done to your UIM... you state it was cut up and the TB side was moved to keep the lettering right side up and the TB inlet on the passenger side, but if you orientate the stock UIM with the letters right the TB inlet is already on your passenger side... the only time lettering is upside down in a fiero is when you have the TB inlet on the drivers side like factory was due to the motor being positioned 180* from a FWD car. Technically all that was done to your UIM was turned 180* which is what RWD guys do all the time to get the TB inlet to the front rather than the rear of the engine.

[ericjon262]

I was reading your thread and I'm a bit confused on what was done to your UIM... you state it was cut up and the TB side was moved to keep the lettering right side up and the TB inlet on the passenger side, but if you orientate the stock UIM with the letters right the TB inlet is already on your passenger side... the only time lettering is upside down in a fiero is when you have the TB inlet on the drivers side like factory was due to the motor being positioned 180* from a FWD car. Technically all that was done to your UIM was turned 180* which is what RWD guys do all the time to get the TB inlet to the front rather than the rear of the engine.

Technically, the motor is still facing the same way, you're just looking at the other side.

[3400-95-Modified]

Technically, the motor is still facing the same way, you're just looking at the other side.

Good point, I completely missed that... LOL, concept on the UIM still is the same though.

[ForcedFirebird]

Good point, I completely missed that... LOL, concept on the UIM still is the same though.

No, it's opposite. Take a 3400 manifold and put it in your trunk with the TB facing the same way it is on the front of the car lol.

[3400-95-Modified]

No, it's opposite. Take a 3400 manifold and put it in your trunk with the TB facing the same way it is on the front of the car lol.

Not what I meant... By concept, I mean what I was questioning... He stated that they cut off the TB inlet and tig'ed it back on and smoothed it so the letters were facing the right way... If you look at his pics all he did was turn it around 180* so the TB inlet is on the front of the motor (aka right side of the car) rather than on the back of the motor. No cutting or welding is necessary to get the lettering facing properly unless they kept the TB in the same location as a stock Fiero to the left side of the car.

I just got the intial idea of why the intake lettering was upside down wrong... it's weird thinking of the motor behind you.

[drturbo69]

Dont get here much.Have a crower billet 2.8 crank-new if someone can use for there boost project?
Best to email at drturbo69@hotmail.com
Doc

[ALLTRBO]

Ack, sorry guys, I somehow missed that UIM conversation.

The TB neck was cut off and re-welded at a slightly different angle to keep the TB from ramming straight into the Fiero's strut tower. So, the only reason that it had to be rewelded was to 'allow' the intake to face the other way.
The lettering then ending up the "right" way (for the Fiero) was ultimately just a consequence of the need to put the TB on the accessory side of the engine. IOW, it all worked out perfectly. Of course, that's about the only thing that did.

As an update, thank you, 90BlueZ, for mentioning that the WG was a fake. Yes it indeed was, and I bought a real Tial F38 (which is an appropriate size for my setup). I'm still kicking myself...

Now, here's the WG's can of worms that was opened when I went to replace it (I fully expect more cans of worms)...

Man, long story short...
The valve seat insert was not installed, causing a large amount of exhaust to bypass the turbo entirely. Remember the problem with the turbo not spinning at idle? Yeah. He blamed it on my turbo being too big.

In addition, the bolts holding the WG to the junk Y-pipe were barely more than finger tight, causing a massive exhaust leak.

The WG's mounting flange was (poorly) hogged out along with the mating flange that is welded onto the junk Y-pipe, and they were tapped for one of two sizes. I say one of two, because one of the bolts was an M10 with a 1.25mm thread pitch and the other was an M10 with a 1.5mm thread pitch. I think that the flange was tapped for the 1.5mm pitch because the 1.25mm bolt and the hole it came out of were stripped worse than the other. Yes, they were BOTH stripped to a degree. Who knows, he may have tapped it for a standard size bolt instead of metric to begin with.

Here's how it is SUPPOSED to work. The WG (both the fake one and the real one in this case) uses M8 bolts, so the holes in the WG are unthreaded M8 holes (imagine that). The flange that is welded onto the Y-pipe should be a threaded M8 hole in this application since the flange was welded flush to the Y-pipe (meaning that you can't put a nut on the other side). M8 bolts are then installed from the WG side while sandwiching the gasket in between the flanges and then tightened to the appropriate torque.

In other words, it's COMMON SENSE. This isn't rocket science! (I should know, I work with rockets and rocket scientists, hah!)
Tell me good people, HOW DO YOU SCREW THAT UP?

So, I can't install my WG yet, as I have to repair or replace that pathetic mess. Pics later.