Need advice tapping oil pan for turbo drain

[Schmieder]

I haven't ever dropped the oil pan for the 3100 96 GP.

And after looking around it seems it is going to be a tricky procedure.

Can anyone give me some advice before I dive in?

It looks like I would need to raise the engine some?


I have considered getting an oil scavenge pump. If removing the oil pan is going to be extensive, I just might get an oil cooler and scavenge pump. Pump it into the drain plug.

Anyone have any tricks that might make tapping the oil pan easier? Could one drill out a hole and tap a threaded/barbed fitting with the oil pan still on the block? Then flush the oil pan from above to remove any aluminum shreds?

Thanks

[RedZMonte]

my guy reverse drilled it on the car so the shavings fell out instead of in then drained the oil and welded the bung to the pan all while on the car. Magnetic bit as well IIRC then did a oil change very shortly after it was all together. Not exactly the best way to do it but it seems to have worked for me.. 3-4years later no problems.

if you do a gravity feed drain make sure its up high on the oil pan so the return oil is above the oil level in the pan to prevent the drain from backing up in the return line.

Idealy you want to remove the pan or modify another pan and swap it... No shavings and no leaks.

If you go the route of using a pump, i know the STS kits pump it back into the oil fill cap on the front head, no holes, no welding and will not back up or create bubbles in the oil. I don't like the idea of the pump failing and burning up my turbo....


S

[Schmieder]

Thanks Red,

Even if the oil pan tap was easy, I still consider the scavenge pump with oil cooler. When I decide to purchase another vehicle, the pump is easier to transfer then having to re-tap a new oil pan.

Plus, I like the idea of using the oil cooler as a tank to drain the oil from the turbo, cool it off before returning to engine and pump it out the other end of the cooler into the oil cap.

The oil cap feed is a great idea, btw.


Any opinions regarding the Oil FIlter Sandwich? I've read people complain about oil pressure loss using the oil sandwich. Though, it seems a very easy place to tap feed and return with scavenge pump.

Now, will the oil have been filtered before it is feed from the sandwich? Otherwise, would the oil pressure sender be a better option?

I think my set up will be

Oil pressure sender tapped with 'T'
Oil drain from turbo into cooler
Scavenge pump the oil from cooler into block through oil cap mod.

I probably will design a warning light to signal scavenge oil pump failure. Not sure how to do it but will figure it out.

EDIT: Here is an idea, let me know what you guys think/know about this.

Can I create an independent oil system for the turbo? Using the scavenge pump to pump the oil into the turbo feed from the cooler unit and have it drain into the cooler. It would be an isolated oiling system.

In such a setup, I could determine an ideal oil weight for the turbo. Also keeping engine contaminants from the turbo oil system.

I like the idea. Any flaws with this setup?

[RedZMonte]

i thought about this in the past.. make sure you use a resivor to hold extra oil if you do a isolated system, don't want to run it dry. you would need a oil cooler for sure..

I would think oil canister (extra oil) mounted low in the wheel well or something, From the canister to a filter, from filter to pump to a oil cooler, from oil cooler to turbo back to canister... I am sure there is a reason why its not done normally....

Running the oil from the engine to the turbo is simple and it also has a indication light when low, filter and no pump to fail... less parts invoved results in less chances of failure.

Mine T's off the oil pressure sensor to the turbo back to the oil pan... very simple.

S

[Schmieder]

Mine T's off the oil pressure sensor to the turbo back to the oil pan... very simple.

S

I agree, simple is better. Less chance of something going wrong. After all, if man built it, it is bound to fail. Only a matter of when.

I just don't want to hassle with removing the oil pan. But the idea of tapping the pan while on the block is interesting.

I could see that working if it was done right. I would surely use a good, strong thread lock.

[Schmieder]

For anyone who is interested or has the same question, here is a good solution I found.

Blast air into the oil pan through drain plug while friend drills hole. The shavings will get blown out and away from the oil pan.

Also a good idea to put some form of grease on the drill and tap. Occasionally wiping it off and reapply. Drill slowly.

Due to simplicity and general common sense factors, I decided to tap the oil pan with a 1/2" tap and fit a 1/2" male to -10AN male fitting. The oil drain hose is fitted with -10AN 60* adapter.

Hopefully this info will help someone else who finds themselves in the same position as I.

[Joseph Upson]

Due to simplicity and general common sense factors, I decided to tap the oil pan with a 1/2" tap and fit a 1/2" male to -10AN male fitting. The oil drain hose is fitted with -10AN 60* adapter.

Glad you did, you will appreciate simplicity and reliability when you encounter as many problems as I have with projects of this sort. The traditional oil feed is usually from the oil pressure sensor feed or somewhere along that line. As for the picture with the return feed by scavenge pump to the oil cap, my concern would be with dumping hot oil on top of the cylinder head. I have measured oil return from a turbo as a test for flow at low engine speed and it is quite a bit so I know at higher rpm it's even greater and can have a significant impact on the cylinder head it is being dumped on as it builds up from the increased flow. When you put a lot of effort into your project you don't want it to fail as a result of over engineering.

[1988GTU]

Why not go all the way and have a feed and drain system? You wouldn't have to worry about the variable of engine oil feed and would not have to worry about drainage issues of tapping a valve cover or filler cap.

[Joseph Upson]

Why not go all the way and have a feed and drain system? You wouldn't have to worry about the variable of engine oil feed and would not have to worry about drainage issues of tapping a valve cover or filler cap.

Over engineering not to mention the variable engine oil feed is beneficial in that it increases with the demand and so does the cooling effect. With a stand alone system for a turbo as opposed to a supercharger you'll have two oil changes, two oil filters and additional unnecessary weight and complication, kind of what I'm experiencing now with two turbos and the exhaust plumbing to go along with it doing what it only takes one turbo to do. It's nice on paper and very creative but for a daily driver unnecessary and again a potential liability.

I'm redoing my setup because I realized that when you're 500 or more miles away from home you don't need or want any problems requiring advanced tools to repair.

[1988GTU]

Thanks Red,

Even if the oil pan tap was easy, I still consider the scavenge pump with oil cooler. When I decide to purchase another vehicle, the pump is easier to transfer then having to re-tap a new oil pan.

Over engineering not to mention the variable engine oil feed is beneficial in that it increases with the demand and so does the cooling effect. With a stand alone system for a turbo as opposed to a supercharger you'll have two oil changes, two oil filters and additional unnecessary weight and complication, kind of what I'm experiencing now with two turbos and the exhaust plumbing to go along with it doing what it only takes one turbo to do. It's nice on paper and very creative but for a daily driver unnecessary and again a potential liability.

I'm redoing my setup because I realized that when you're 500 or more miles away from home you don't need or want any problems requiring advanced tools to repair.

That was my main reasoning for posting my idea. It would be very interchangeable and if you change vehicles often (lease) , it would pay for itself over time in a sense.

[RedZMonte]

i know its already been discussed but Just for giggles...simple is good, but hypothetically...

You would want a filter before the pump and the cooler after the pump and before the turbo. pump can maintain pressure to push threw the cooler, gravity feed return cannot. The return is not pressureized when it leaves the turbo. and you would not want to back up the return any or it will put excess pressure on the seals and cause premature failure. I would also want a low oil level light and a oil pressure gauge to let me know if the pump is failing or has failed...

S

[1988GTU]

i know its already been discussed but Just for giggles...simple is good, but hypothetically...

You would want a filter before the pump and the cooler after the pump and before the turbo. pump can maintain pressure to push threw the cooler, gravity feed return cannot. The return is not pressureized when it leaves the turbo. and you would not want to back up the return any or it will put excess pressure on the seals and cause premature failure. I would also want a low oil level light and a oil pressure gauge to let me know if the pump is failing or has failed...

S

True to an engineering standpoint, but if things are realistically properly configured, the setup will work.

You really want to maintain a constant temp, that is why I put the cooler before the pump. The filter after in this situation is going to be null, it's just there JUST in case something were to happen, but being that, that particular system is closed and not open to air I'd run without a filter.

[RedZMonte]

I agree it would work.. not the most cost effective or practical in this application is what im saying.

you would want the filter before the pump, if contaminants go into the system it could cause pump failure (turbo failure can chew up bearings and contaminate the oil even on closed system). you would want to push the fluid threw the cooler not pull it threw the cooler, the pump is a pusher not a puller.

S

[Schmieder]

I would use a filter regardless. Higher temps can carbonize oil. Don't want those types of carbon grits floating around. Probably won't carbonize at normal operation but the moment any excessive heat is encountered in the isolated oiling system, a filter would be a make or break item, imho.

I could be wrong

[Schmieder]

For the oil pan...Can I use a barbed connection to the 3/8" hose for the oil return? I'm assuming it should be ok given there is no real pressures involved. At least, no pressures that would compromise a barbed connection with a clamp. Besides not having a smooth transitional 60* angle like the -10AN Hose Adapter, I can't see why it wouldn't be ok to use w/o any problems.

A -10AN 60* hose adapter would be nice but they are really expensive for a simple hose end piece.

Bottom line, use a 1/2" Male to 3/8" Barbed. The 1/2" goes into the oil pan and the barbed connects the oil return line.

Also, about how much clearance do I have going into the oil pan? Should I try to get the 1/2" thread to be flush with the inside wall? Or can I have a minor hang out, like 1/4"? I would just drill, tap and install but I don't want the thread to be struck by any moving parts. It would be a pain to measure for flush and set while pan is on the block. Actually, I could use washers to back the thread off? As long as I use a sealer of some sort to prevent oil leaks?