turbo my 95 camaro

[matt440rev]

hello all, had a few questions about putting a turbo on my 95 camaro with a 3.4 and a 5spd. i just want a little extra oooph but still keep my gas milage. ive built many turbo kits for diesel trucks but kinda new to the gas motor thing. what kind of turbo should i look for? what kind of psi should i run? (my trucks usally run about 40+lbs lol) i plan on intercooling it and maybe water meth too. just want it to stay reliable.

thanks for the help

matt

[robertisaar]

considering that i've calculated ideal turbo sizes for anywhere between a 3.1 and a 3.9, a T61 would be well sized for a ohv3.4.

but you will run into the issue of tuning it, but since you have a 5 speed, that helps a lot, but you might blow it up eventually.

basicly you will need to convert to a ECM that allows for boost, i suggest a 1227727/1227730 or 1227749, since either of those are VERY well documented and will allow you to run a manual transmission with boost.

now your turn: what goals do you have in mind?

[ForcedFirebird]

I used a to4e-46 on my 3.1 iron head with great results. I also built loner's turbo kit using a to4e-60 and it ran a 12.9 best with a lame 1.9 60' (FWD aluminum heads).

For simplicity, you have room to do what is known as an "under k-member" system...








More pics...

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t87/forcedfirebird/projectfirebird/

[robertisaar]

i can probably bow out of the thread now... john knows what he's talking about. and that is a strange exhaust routing, but it obviously works...

[matt440rev]

i just want a little more power, sompthing fun. im not a racer or anything like that. i drive 250 miles a day so mild is definitly for me. what kind of trim would i look for in the turbo? what do i have to get a different ecm for? cant i just get a programer (dont laugh)? i thought the computer would adjust for a turbo with the maf sensor. this is exactly why i came here, for the little things like things like this. i want to get all the parts around before i start in on this. what does a t04-46 run? are they gated internally or do i get a external gate? what size gate would i get 44mm?

[TiredGXP]

There's a great turbo sizing calculator here: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php

You'll need at least a reasonable estimate of the volumetric efficiency of your engine at 4 different RPM points, as well as some idea of the brake specific fuel consumption (the calculator suggests that probably something around .51 is appropriate for an intercooled gas engine) and the expected charge air temperature after the intercooler.

When trying to size a turbo for my iron head 3.1 (bored out to 3.2), I used the following values:

BSFC = .55 (just to be conservative)

VE @ RPM
57 @ 6000 (redline)
76 @ 5200 (peak power)
85 @ 3000 (full boost)
75 @ 1900 (minimum boost)

Our engines have the same heads, but your intake is slightly better than the Fiero one, so your VE may be a bit better at the higher RPM range.

Figure on intake air temperature of 110* to 115* at the two higher RPM points and closer to ambient at the lower two points.

If using an A2A intercooler, you probably need to expect about 2 pounds pressure loss. This calculator provides boost at the output to the compressor, so you need to deduct the intercooler loss to arrive at effective boost in the manifold.

There's some great turbo sizing explanations on the Garrett Turbo Tech site: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ch_center.html . If you work your way through the math, you end up with the same airflow info that the Squirrel Performance calculator provides, but you'll have a better feel for how all the parts interact and how to read a compressor map.

As far as the ECM learning to deal with a turbo using the MAF, I don't think that's realistic - the stock 19# injectors aren't going to be able to deal with much, if any, boost. So you'll probably have to upgrade to 30# injectors to run ~10 pounds of boost - the ECM needs to be reprogrammed to deal with the larger injectors and, realistically, you probably need to use a turbo calibration such as $8F, which may mean moving to a MAP sensor and a speed density tune. Someone else probably has more in depth ECM and tuning advice for you.

If looking at the T3/T04E turbo's, any one of the 50, 54, 57 or 60 trim compressors would work very well for your application (if these VE and BSFC numbers are any good for your engine). The calculator figures on 250 crank HP @ 5200 and a net 10 pounds of boost. Given a maximum airflow of 28.8 lb/min and an AFR of 12:1, you will need 30# injectors to maintain an injector duty cycle of 80% or less.

[matt440rev]

now theres some info! who can program the ecm for a turbo application? i figured i would have to get a bit bigger injectors.

so basicly i need a ecm remapped, a turbo/intercooler, injectors, bov, and lots of pipe building time.

what kind of exhaust are you guys using? corsa?

anything i missed?

could i use water meth with this also? maybe a small shot of nos down the road?

[matt440rev]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-T04E-Turbocharger-A-R-63-Turbo-Boost-Controller_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem51895d52deQQitemZ350196945630QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

would sompthing like this work or is this a tad too small?

[robertisaar]

ah, the crappy chinese ebay turbos... i'll say this: those are a gamble, you'll either get one that works or it'll kill itself very quickly, i know, i have one... mine is a "T70", which we worked out a whule ago to it actually being a T61. i got mine from speedy racer...

and be prepared to rip your hair out: your PCM? you can't tune it... its one of those fun obd1.5 PCMs that everyone bitches about...

easiest thing to do: get a 1227727, and run TGP code on it, or get a 1227749 and run Code59 on it. those are about as good as it gets for turbo tunes...

[TiredGXP]

easiest thing to do: get a 1227727, and run TGP code on it, or get a 1227749 and run Code59 on it. those are about as good as it gets for turbo tunes...

I have one of each - Figured I'd go with the 7727 and TGP code to get things running and broken in and then try to make $59 work with DIS...

[robertisaar]

also a smart option, should you have the time/money/patience necessary...

[matt440rev]

i just emailed force fed and he said he would sell me a turbo that will net 3-350 rwhp. and said to use a stand alone efi controller. this dont sound like a bad idea. does that controller work the same as a reprogramed ecm?

thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.

matt

[robertisaar]

of course it will work the same, but what all it can control is going to be limited. if, for example, you had an automatic, most don't control the TCC solenoid

but if you go that route you may not find as much support for it.

think of it this way: GM spent millions of dollars creating reliable, adjustable, completely capable ECMs/PCMs. can you say the same about most aftermarket controllers?

[ForcedFirebird]

My turbo(s) are ebay units and worked fine The only thing is they are advertised as 50 or 60 trim, but are actually 46.

If you piggyback your ECM with a standalone (MegaSquirt or other) just to control fuel and timing, all the functions of the stock ECM will remain ie dash/gauges and transmisson.

[robertisaar]

My turbo(s) are ebay units and worked fine The only thing is they are advertised as 50 or 60 trim, but are actually 46.

you seem to have good luck with them john, from what i read elsewhere, it seems to be a hit or miss thing.....then again, maybe people are just being stupid and firing up their motors right after installing and redlining it for 30 seconds at a time, i've seen people this "smart" before...