Chemist

[95SleeperAcheiva]

Need a little help out there.

I'm looking for a atmospheric pump, that will run on 12v. Must maintain 45 PSI @ 100 GPH, I think. I'm also looking for cathodes and anodes.

I think a catalyst would be harder to make but if you are following this, you tell me.

Maybe a little help on this from a chemist too.

[ryan.hess]

What are you trying to do?

I bet I can debunk it before you even get started...

[Juglenaut]

A decent diapramic pump should be able to deliver 100 gph.

I not sure what you doing either, but I have an idea.

Are you trying to make fuel change states?

http://www2.northerntool.com/product/59910_59910.htm

You need a pump that can deliver at least 1.67gpm. The one above can deliver 3.5.

Since you are pumping air the perf is alittle lower.

[MRHOTROD82]

the pump that jugle has linked would produce 210 gph and at a decent price..

[95SleeperAcheiva]

will the stock injectors leak flowing thin atmosphere and not liquid? How would I control pressure variance due to heat in the fuel rail and lines? Do I need to worry about that? NM the last question. hhmmmmm.

[IsaacHayes]

Making the fuel a gas? Wouldn't that be a lot harder to get enough fuel injected?

[ryan.hess]

Here's my guess as to what he's doing. Let me know how close I get.

Either A) you're converting your car to run on hydrogen

or B) You're supplementing your engine to run on hydrogen part-time to get better gas mileage.

Neither one will work. It has to do with power in/power out.

[95SleeperAcheiva]

Correct ryan. I learned a few things since I posted.

Hydrogen is 4x less combustible than gas and gives 4x less punch than gas. Therfore I would need 4x more hydrogen to get the same mileage as gas.

But...

I've learned about hydrogen boosted motors. This is not new. A German company has a device that makes hydrogen from your gasoline on board and injects it into the motor. It gives more air into the cylinder and a colder flame. Thus more power and they are showing results of 30% increase in gas mileage.

I found a guy who makes a kit for $750. I looked at the kit and laughed. I'd like to know how or what is inside is hydrogen generator, his kit looks like something I could build on a friday night.

So, how do you make hydrogen from gas?

I read another article that says this generator only needs about 75 watts of power to function.

Other test results show drastic improvement on turbo charged and supercharged motors. I think we can go somewhere with this, especially since there are ECU programmers who can tweak the system. Ben?

[EspanolaGuitarista]

Hydrogen has an octane...

....of 120. It may be 4 times less powerful, but you can run 40+ lbs of boost. That would be at least 3 atmospheres. On a computer controlled system this could equate to huge part-throttle boost when there is little engine load. Go to Ford's website. They have a car that runs a turbo hydrogen power plant. Personally, I like the idea of E85. Read a good article in PHR on it. Average of 110 octane. If people can run 12:1 on pump then I'm sure 13:1 on E85 is very possible. Anyways, either one would allow more aggressive cams and still pass smog. Wouldn't a hydrogen powered car with a big cam shoot flames out the tailpipe at idle?

[ryan.hess]

Correct ryan. I learned a few things since I posted.

Hydrogen is 4x less combustible than gas and gives 4x less punch than gas. Therfore I would need 4x more hydrogen to get the same mileage as gas.

But...

I've learned about hydrogen boosted motors. This is not new. A German company has a device that makes hydrogen from your gasoline on board and injects it into the motor. It gives more air into the cylinder and a colder flame. Thus more power and they are showing results of 30% increase in gas mileage.

I found a guy who makes a kit for $750. I looked at the kit and laughed. I'd like to know how or what is inside is hydrogen generator, his kit looks like something I could build on a friday night.

So, how do you make hydrogen from gas?

Okay... Here's the scoop with hydrogen. Hydrogen is nothing more than an energy battery. So is gasoline. Hydrogen is usually created by the electrolosys of water. I think they usually use platinum electrodes to separate water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. The "-" electrode draws out the H, the + electrode draws out the O.

Anyways, lets do an example. Lets say you have a 100hp engine, and drive the car 60 miles a day. Lets say on average you have your puny engine spitting out 50% of that power, and you drive 60mph.

That means each day you're using 50*1= 50 hp-hours of fuel.
One HP is 745 watts. So each day you use 37,250 watt-hours of fuel.

To power that car with a hydrogen generator on board, at 12 volts, you would need to source 3000 amps. A typical alternator puts out 1/30th of that.

And the problem with taking power off the alternator - yep, you guessed it - it takes power off the engine, which burns more fuel. If you need more fuel, you need more power, etc etc.

The problem with generating the hydrogen outside of the car is a storage problem. Hydrogen is a gas, and gases have less energy/volume than liquids. So you have to turn your car into a huge tank on wheels.

[boarderbob]

I know I'm relatively new here and don't have room to speak but I've done a few analysis reports on hydrogen powered vehicles and the efficiency isn't there, at least not with today's technology. Given it's been about a year since I've looked at anything, so I may be wrong. Sorry to interrupt.

[95SleeperAcheiva]

Yes I realize that going all hydrogen would not be effiecient, especially pulling the hydrogen from water thru elctrolosis. The kits I found, and what this german company is doing, is somehow, I geuss a catalyst, cooking small amounts of gasoline, getting hydrogen from there and adding it to your engine in addition to your fuel. The hydrogen burns cooler than gasoline, and because it's by-product is water vapor, the chamber temps drop, increasing power. Kind of like water injection. It's suppost to give you a 20-30% increase in gas mileage. Sort of like adding NOS. super cool the chamber and you get more atmosphere in there. They are also talking about running your motor ultra-lean, 18:1 mixture. They say the hydrogen additive lowers chamber temps and you don't slag your pistons.

[Juglenaut]

I have found plans on how to make a vaporstate injectors, hydrogen reactors, chemical electrolysis, and some other odds and ends. I would have to dig it up again.

My plan was to find a small propane engine, convert it to hydrogen and/or propane, run a generator to charge batteries and convert a S-10 to electric. I also have a small diesel engine currently that can be converted to vege oil.

Look at this when you are drunk or wired on coffee it seems to make sense:

http://business.gorge.net/zdkf/zdki/zil-dhst.html

[ryan.hess]

My plan was to find a small propane engine, convert it to hydrogen and/or propane, run a generator to charge batteries and convert a S-10 to electric. I also have a small diesel engine currently that can be converted to vege oil.

That would be terribly inefficient. Propane engine efficiency - lets say 30%. Generator efficiency - lets say 70%. Electric motor efficiency - lets say 70% as well. 0.30*0.70*0.70 = 14.7% overall efficiency. So, for every pound of propane you burn, you lose 85.3% of the energy.

[EspanolaGuitarista]

The best system I've seen is...

...Co-generation. Use a gas engine, the byproduct is lots of heat. The heat is then used to generate steam using ammonia in a vacuum. A completely sealed system that does not lose water with a mono-tube boiler sytem that only requires 3-5 gallons of liquid total. This means the car can be started immediately and driven which allows the car to reach optimum temperature quickly. Given the developments of thermal barriers this sytem could reach a combined effiency? of over 50 percent. In small 1.0 L diesal engine this could mean 80-100 mpg. I do not understand why the automakers do not use this technology. That's my .02 cents.