I hate stupid people

[SappySE107]

Exactly. This site was founded by DIYers without options. We didn't have anyone but RSM and Mantapart basically. Talk about a bunch of crap. We have more options today than ever before. I certainly don't want to hear anything about necessary evils as there are a LOT of people that aren't enthusiasts, or understand how to use the internet, or generally not know about sites like this one and others that have people with experience. Marketing sells. Hypertech chip makes 21 hp in a 3.1 grand prix. Seriously, they claim that. Who is stopping them? Why should anyone care what they say if no one makes them back it up?

Welcome to 60degreev6.com.

[93z34]

damn ben... have you ever gotten a straight answer when ya asked him to prove his work?

[SappySE107]

Not that I recall. He usually just completely ignores my questions though and talks about something else.

[dohcfiend]

i'm making my own headers, but ummm, they wont work for a stock configured LQ1.

i don't see anyone as a necessary evil. if i think they're an ass, they flat out don't need my business, and i'll make what i need.

that's great. but i do not have the tools, the experience or the time to pull that off. if u consider producing more than one set and not be like aaron used to be with his, that would be nice. most people i talk to flat out will not take the job. right now it is like pulling teeth to get some poly mounts. i am thinking about just getting poly mounts for another fwd car and having the brackets adapted to the lq1/wbody.

Exactly. This site was founded by DIYers without options. We didn't have anyone but RSM and Mantapart basically. Talk about a bunch of crap. We have more options today than ever before. I certainly don't want to hear anything about necessary evils as there are a LOT of people that aren't enthusiasts, or understand how to use the internet, or generally not know about sites like this one and others that have people with experience. Marketing sells. Hypertech chip makes 21 hp in a 3.1 grand prix. Seriously, they claim that. Who is stopping them? Why should anyone care what they say if no one makes them back it up?

Welcome to 60degreev6.com.

you know i remember putting out an ad for a fabcator and/or a cnc machinist to make parts for me and the community. i recieved not one response, so if there are people with experience they either did not reply or are not here.

[SappySE107]

WTF are you talking about? Fabricators and CNC machinists wanting to mass produce parts for you has shit to do with DIY. It has shit to do with experience modifying these engines and the cars they are in.

If you wanna tell me people with experience aren't here, you are on drugs. Hoenstly, I think you are cause your reply to me was about as good as the flux capicitor post on mymonte.

[dohcfiend]

i really do not see a reason for you to get shitty with me.

i could give a shit about DIY, i will install the shit myself but that is it. also wouldn't you put yourself out of business if every1 was a DIY'er? i am not going to go out and spend x amount of dollars on materials and tools just to make crappy looking parts for the same amount of money i could pay some1 with experience to make a nice one.

and i didn't really want mass produced parts perhaps just a few units to circulate. not all of us work at a shop or have the free time it takes to pull off some of these parts.

maybe if you had an actual job and had to drive your car more, you might understand a little better. hell with all your free time you should have re-engineered the whole engine by now.

[SappySE107]

All my free time? Shows what you know about my day to day events. Your reply made no sense...period.

This site was started by DIY people, not engineers, cad owners, CNC machinists, or people with lots of cash to throw at the engine. When I said experience, I wasn't talking about experience with high dollar machining equipment just as I wasn't talking experience bagging groceries at wal mart which btw would probably be the job id be doing now had I not spent so much time making hardly any money on 60V6 stuff. The experience I was talking about was modifying something to fit, using parts from other applications either as they are or modifying them to fit. What you are telling me is you posted on here wanting someone to fabricate you something, or machine something billet with high dollar equipment in a small order 1 run deal for the best price you could get (which was a lot wasn't it?). What do you want me to tell you, we have DIY and we have companies making parts now.

Here is what the real point of all this recent bs has been. We have people that know about engines and those that don't. Companies vary greatly in how they market themselves, as in, their target audience. If 1 company says 5 angle valve job with radius blend, and the other says "race valve job", which is better? Well, thats the marketing aspect. Some will say race valve job because it says race. Someone else will think the first because its more detailed and was written by someone who at least too the time to learn about valve jobs. The way I see it, the first person is just gonna buy the race valve job (if thats the only thing they are looking for) unless its a lot more expensive. However, the 2nd person is more likely to ask the race valve job company for more details. Here is my problem. Milzy won't tell me details. How do you compare then? Thats a necessary evil though right?

I drive 300 miles a week, and I work more than 8 hours a day on average. I work some weekends and I spend most of my profits on my business. I cannot take out a loan so I do what I can with what I have. I help as much as I can with this site and I try my best to answer everyone's questions. I am at the machine shop learning how to use some of the machines and the basic tasks of block prep and such, in exchange for some head work that I have done there. Maybe if you got paid jack shit just for the opportunity to do what you love, you could see things my way.

[geoffinbc]

Ben you goit it nailed man. The number one thing I have hated since day one about all these shitty aftermarket sites for the 660's was the lack of detail. It basically seemed to me that someone was just reselling someone elses design and fabrication skills. And guess what I was right thats all they do.

JBP was the bigges letdown for me. When Lloyd and I recieved the "Bullet Proof" CV shafts and soon found them to be worn to shit we though WTF? What are these things REALLY. Well it took an hour or so to haul the shafts out of the car and what we found was a USED set of CV joints that had been covered in different boots, still had the same used grease in them and the only single new part was the half shaft that connect one CV joint to the other. Now after paying the outrageous price for what we though were brand new set of high strength axles you would think if they were going to rip us off they would at least do a better job of it and supply some rebuilt CV joints from an auto parts store. But no they gave us used and severly damaged parts as sold it as new. Absoloutly un acceptable.

But after all that shit we had no choice but to run out and get new CV's and put them in the car. We at least used the JBP half shaft since it was made of a higher strength steel. But in the end Lloyd still ate all the money. And really there was nothing we could do. They ignored every e-mail and every time he called the manager was out. It would cost us more money in wasted time then it was worth to go after them. Whoever works there does not know fuck all about these engines and I can tell by the e-mail communications I have had with them. So I will warn everyone as long as im on this site to stay the hell away from them.

Brad and I took on a task for the community here. When everyone cried out for header flanges Brad and I piped up and volunteered our time and made and investment in getting the products out. Not only did we make a good product but I delivered every one on time as promised, didn't have one complaint and the quality was very high and I never herd one person question the price nor did I ever recieve a complaint on the fit or finish. Too bad we can all have good experiences like that.

[Darin]

Blah, Lets not get everyones panties in a bunch, I like this site due to the lack of the childish BS like all the other forums.

Lets keep it that way and just ditch this thread.

[IsaacHayes]

The DIY places are the best, as its not one source telling you what they want you to hear. Lots of expereince too, and so many people with expertise in different fields. And you get to see the creative ways and ideas of the frankenstien stuff people come up with. Together, it all melds together and one can get a good idea of what to put together themselves for free! (the ideas, not the parts!)

[dohcfiend]

What you are telling me is you posted on here wanting someone to fabricate you something, or machine something billet with high dollar equipment in a small order 1 run deal for the best price you could get (which was a lot wasn't it?).

it certainly wasn't cheap but the price was split between every1 that participated equally and fairly. so i broke even and recieved the high quality part i wanted for a very reasonable price as opposed to what i would have had to pay to have just one part made for myself.

Here is my problem. Milzy won't tell me details. How do you compare then? Thats a necessary evil though right?

not every company will disclose details about everything they make (although milzy could be more forthcoming about his products). one way to compare would be to purchase and evaluate the part yourself and provide details based on testing, personal experience and comparisons to other parts. it may be a necessary evil if you want your answers bad enough. either way you are asking the wrong person as i am not on the mms payroll.

[SappySE107]

Ive already thought about that actually. While it would be nice to show a comparison like this, its actually in my favor to just let him go for the moment and not give him my money for something I don't really need. Ill flow a head for free if someone else has his head but I would need documentation to prove its what he sells.

I wasn't knocking what you have done. Im doing something like that but on a more long term scale and with profit to fund new projects, products, equipment, my time for research, and my time for doing the work. Thats the only way to do it if you want to make a living from it.

[ez112]

You know. I see Milzy bashing so much, and how many people have dealt with them? 1 and that's dohcfiend.

I gave this guy enough trust to take my whole car for months at a time, and am more than happy with my turnout with what he did. It's unfair to just bash the poor guy when he's not even here to defend himself.

As far as dynoing the intakes, worry not, I'll dyno again soon enough, back at his place. I do NOT have a problem with picking up parts that don't show evidence of "dyno proven" gains. I know they'll be worthwhile parts. And as mentioned, he's an L67 guy and doesn't have a car to dyno them with, so I'm glad to do it for him on his behalf, because I think I should be so lucky I have someone that gives a rat shit about my DOHC.

And if any other N/A automatic W-body DOHC has some shit to talk, I'll see you at the track.

[RednBlack]

Yes, the track is the place to solve this quandry...

[SappySE107]

My original post was about the people on mymonte giving me shit for asking milzy questions. I understand he has "satisfied customers' because he likes to post about them. Thats great.

The track isn't going to solve anything actually. That won't tell us cam specs, flow specs, how the flowbench was setup, the number of angles in a race valve job, etc. The dyno would answer the "how much hp does x product make". 5-10 guessing isn't the answer, its a guess and may as well say whatever he wants.

He is more than welcome to come here. I tried on mymonte and I gave up.

As far as your challenge, you will have to wait till next year to see anything serious from me. I will say that his headers look pretty good now in design compared to what he started with. I still see room for improvement but why should I bother worrying about a mass produced part for something that 1 person has bought. Are there other people running his headers yet? At $1000 for them plus install costs for most people that are too afraid to work on a DOHC car, I doubt it.