CC'ing stuff

[Doubt_Incarnate]

Ok i'm a loser and i dont have any friends, so that makes my days off very boring. Combined with i'm paying off a bunch of debt so i dont want to spend money. I am however looking at getting a burrette and stand to get some real CC measurements for various piston dishes, and probably head gaskets, and maybe heads to. so if anyone has some pistons laying around that they need to get rid of...

[bszopi]

RE: CC

I actually have a burrette and some 3100 pistons and heads, I just need to get everything set up and do it sometime...

[SappySE107]

RE: CC

My burrette will be here today so yeah, ill be doing the same:P

[Doubt_Incarnate]

lol ok, so maybe my days off will consist of... making pizza dough

[SappySE107]

Well, im not doing block/piston right away, just heads. I got my setup today. Ithink chris used a needle with grease in it to make a small bead round the cc for the plexiglass to seal. Anyone have more suggestions? What about fluid? Im about to go to walmart to hunt something down, mostly food coloring in case water works best, but im thinking marvel mystery oil or mineral spirits or something.

[patgizz]

water works best

and yup you put a little grease or vaseline around the chamber, runner that you want to test and that seals the plexiglass.

[BMFH]

Hello All

A better way, build a 3 point head stand so that you can get the heads perfectly level in BOTH directions, all thread and nuts work great for the uprights for the head to set on.

Make a U or C shaped bridge to strattle the combustion chamber so that it does not wiggle side to side when rocked on the CLEAN head surface or suface plate, drill the center and install an adjustable very sharp tipped rod or bolt. Set it on a surface table or a thick flat piece of glass and adjust the SHARPENED rod tip untill it just TOUCHES the surface table or glass and then lock it down with jam nuts at the bridge center.

The bridge should not wobble after setting the point of the rod or bolt and if you place a single ply of news paper under the point it should tear when pulled on while holding the bridge with light down pressure.

This will allow you to CC the Combustion Chambers or ports without using any Plexiglass, just fill the combustion chamber or port untill the fluid of choice just touches the sharp point of the rod or bolt, much simpler, more accurate, repeatable, and there is not any mess with the plexiglass or grease to seal it, plus you don't have to worry about hitting the hole in the plexiglass or have the problem with venting at the fill hole.

Water is OK to use, just remember to disassemble, dry and lube components after using water, or they will rust up on you. I like to use kerosene or diesel fuel with some ATF in it for coloring, makes it easier to read the level in the berrett.

Try and do the testing at the same outside air temperature each time to maintain accuracy, even if only slightly.

If using kerosene, diesel fuel or any other flamable liquids, do it in a safe area and clean up any spilled fluids as soon as they happen.

DO NOT USE THE FLAMABLE FLUIDS IN AND ENCLOSED AREA, DO NOT PRODUCE ANY FLAMES OR SPARKS IN THE AREA OF THE TESTING, TO PREVENT HAVING A FIRE.

Hope this helps

John

[SappySE107]

I already have the plexiglass, grease, and marvel mystery oil:P I dunno about accuracy or repeatability. I tried one with 2 holes drilled, so air could escape, but it wasn't right cause I should have put the holes closer to the top edge. I have the head angled, and will be using the head stands brad made me once i grab them out of the box that I still have packed from moving out of the shop.

I got 26.4 cc for 1 chamber. This sound right for a 3400 head with SI valves? Im not doing the rest right now, i need to just use test springs instead of assembling the head. I used grease on the valve seat and then sprayed the chamber down with carb spray to get the excess grease out of the chamber. I figure that will make it accurate. Oh, and grease on the top threads of the spark plugs. AC delco plugs

[Doubt_Incarnate]

i didnt think it really mattered what you used as far as fluid, a cc is a cc if its water, beer, concrete, etc. i was thinking about tranny fluid. one of the biggest things im interested in is the dish on the pistons, most of my searches have turned up a differnt cc for several pistons. so now i'm not 100% sure what the cc is on the ones in my motor. my project is pretty much stalled untill i can get some real measurements and be sure of whats going on.

off topic, but has any one seen the 60 degree v6 headers for a fiero on ebay made by steve hamm, for an opening bid of $325?

[GPXSS]

i didnt think it really mattered what you used as far as fluid, a cc is a cc if its water, beer, concrete, etc. i was thinking about tranny fluid. one of the biggest things im interested in is the dish on the pistons, most of my searches have turned up a differnt cc for several pistons. so now i'm not 100% sure what the cc is on the ones in my motor. my project is pretty much stalled untill i can get some real measurements and be sure of whats going on.

You want the liquid to be very thin so it runs into all the areas nicely. I have found water has too much surface tension and will bead rather than flow into a tight area. My liquid of choice is Marvel Mystery oil. Thin, already tinted red, and has a nice fresh minty scent.

Btw, I ran into the same problem with the holes on the plexiglas plate, so what I did was run the edge of the plexiglass just up to where the chamber tapers to the head surface at the top. Air escapes, and you have more room to drip without spilling any.

I already have cc numbers for alot of the factory and aftermarket pistons:

GM 3.1 MPFI 25.5
TRW H561CP 25.9
GM 3100 SFI 25.9
TRW H692CP 27.4
TRW H562CP *12.9

* calculated from diameter and depth, probably more like 11.5 with the radiused bottom.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

TRW H562CP *12.9

thats the one for me, iv'e seen 12, i was originaly told 10.5, and now you say 11.5 is likely. that meane my CR is pretty much up in the air. i think the aluminum heads re going to putt off for later and the iron heads are going to be swapped over, that way the CR will be in a friendlier range, room for boost later if i'm adventurous, and i wont have to re-wire for the differnt sensors.

and i thought the 3100's had a higher CR than the 3.1mpfi, is there a major difference in the combustion chambers?

[robby1870]

That TRW H562CP is the iron head piston right? I have an excel spreadsheet I downloaded a couple of years ago probably from an ancestor of this site and it gives the iron head piston dish volume to be at 11.9cc's. I know that number is probably from a factory piston, but helps give an idea. This sheet also says that 3.1L dish is 26.4cc's and 3100 dish is 24.6cc's. Like I said, Im not sure where or who this came from, just giving some stats.

[SappySE107]

I just measured a 3400 CC at 26.4 using SI valves . I didnt measure them all as I have to match these up after I do my port work, and then its not stock and not useful for anyone but the owner of the heads:P

[Doubt_Incarnate]

i'll have to pick up a burette and stand anyways to make sure i know whats actually going on in my motor, and for future projects. i was going for the iron head piston/aluminum heads combo, but with all the measurements ive seen, i could have from a 10.7-11.39 CR.

this thread has actually been quite helpfull, its pointed out the horrible variances floating around, and the need for a solid true set of tables for the pistons and heads for a good starting point. but it would be best for each builder to to CC their own stuff per application to be certian.